Author Topic: Water pump and coolant replacement info.  (Read 6976 times)

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Offline EscCtrl

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Water pump and coolant replacement info.
on: July 28, 2017, 02:55:19 AM
This is not a how to. This is just an informative post for those that would like to know what is involved in making this repair. I ass-u-me that if you're going to under take this repair, you have knowledge of cooling systems and how they work. All specs stated here come directly from the Honda CB-X/F/R service manual.

If you have been reading around the forum or advrider, you know a few of us have been having water pump issues. The issue is the water pump shaft. It's bent just enough to wallow out the bushing on the inside of the water pump. Then coolant leaks out of the weep hole on the bottom of the water pump. The bushing is a tight fit on the shaft and that acts as a seal to keep coolant in. On the other side of the pump body where the shaft exits, there is an internal shaft oil seal and an O ring to seal the water pump body to the engine case. The oil seals seemed to do good.

Just a heads up, never use tap or well water in a cooling system. If you have to use water to get home or to a repair facility, only use distilled water. Tap or well water will have chemicals and minerals in it that can damage the engine's aluminum components and can cause gasket failure. If you're stuck and have to use whatever water you can find, make doubly sure the cooling system is flushed thoroughly before adding the fresh coolant.

You need to know that the service manual states that an occasional drip is normal. It does not state how much is too much. I was losing a quart of coolant over 50 to 100 miles. The system holds 1.5 US quarts (1.4 liters or 1.2 imperial quarts). The coolant reservoir holds at the upper-level mark .13 quarts (.12 liters or .11 imperial quarts). I feel that if the reservoir needs to be topped off every 10,000 miles(16,093km) that the system needs to be checked out.

OK, let's get to it.

The bike will need to be on the center stand or in some way securely supported upright and level front to back and left to right. A little nose down would help when draining the coolant and a little nose up will help the trapped air come to the top when filling the system with coolant. When the water pump is removed, the engine will lose about a half pint of oil. There is no need to drain the oil. Just be aware and have a drain pan under the engine.

The lower cowl will have to be removed. Both frame side covers need to be removed and the right middle cowl to gain access to the radiator cap and the reservoir fill cap. If you have Hepco Becker engine guard, the left one will have to be removed. The left foot peg bracket needs to be removed along with the shifter rod. I remove my shift rod at the top on the engine. I marked the split in the clamp, with a scribe, on the shaft. The sprocket cover needs to be removed and the wiring needs to be moved out of the way. No wiring has to be disconnected, only unclipped from the sprocket cover. There are two cooling system draining points, one on the water pump and one on the front of the cylinder block. Since the system needs to be drained, might as well drain the cylinder block as well. This way the entire system has fresh fluid. To drain the system, the radiator cap has to be removed or the system air locks and won't drain. Kind of like putting your finger over the top of a drinking straw and then lifting it out, no drink leaves the straw. Removing the cap causes the coolant to shoot about two feet out of the water pump. It makes a mess if you're not prepared for it. The pics will tell the tale. I also installed a new chain in the process.

Water pump drain bolt.




Resulting mess after removing the radiator cap and releasing the air lock. I knew better but was in a hurry.


Cylinder block drain point is behind the right side header. It uses a copper washer as a seal. Be careful not to loose or damage it. I reused mine with no problems. It is a 10mm bolt and can only be removed with a short 10mm wrench. The torque spec on this I couldn't find but it's about a 1/4 turn past snug.





Once everything is removed, it's time to remove the water pump.It's as simple as removing three hoses and three small bolts. To remove the hoses, move the clamps up the hoses a couple inches( a few mm). Push the hoses down and twist back and forth. My hoses came right off.

Water pump weep hole. The shaft isn't even bent enough to see, but it is.


New water pump time! It comes with a new o-ring to seal the water pump housing to the engine case. What ever you do, resist the urge to disassemble the new water pump. The bolts have a thread sealant on them. I noticed it when I removed the drain bolt on the old pump.



This thing is almost too pretty to put on my old dirty CB.


New seal comes installed. Just give it a good coating of oil so it will slide in without damaging it. Notice the copper washer on the drain bolt.


Here are the specs for installing the water pump. I don't know why my phone makes white stuff blue. The manual was laying on the tailgate of my truck in the shade of my car port.
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Here's a link to my album with more pics. I didn't want to overload this post with pics.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/62114923@N06/028yQb

I'll be reassembling the body work over the weekend and doing a test ride. I'm hoping to go to an advrider lunch meet up Saturday the 5th of August. if anyone in SC, or surrounding areas, is interested, I'll post the info. All riders are welcome.

Offline Sargent_Horse

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Re: Water pump and coolant replacement info.
Reply #1 on: July 28, 2017, 03:39:28 AM
Nice write up, I hope this ends your pump issues and instills the will to ride back in ya!
I don't actually own a vehicle with more than 2 wheels...

Offline EscCtrl

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Re: Water pump and coolant replacement info.
Reply #2 on: July 28, 2017, 12:55:48 PM
*Originally Posted by Sargent_Horse [+]
Nice write up, I hope this ends your pump issues and instills the will to ride back in ya!

Thanks. I do too. I hope to ride down to the advrider lunch meet up next weekend. Maybe that'll get me interested in riding again.

Offline Tremaux

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Re: Water pump and coolant replacement info.
Reply #3 on: July 28, 2017, 01:38:44 PM
*Originally Posted by EscCtrl [+]
I feel that if the reservoir needs to be topped off every 10,000 miles(16,093km) that the system needs to be checked out.

Im confused, you said you lose a quart every 50-100miles and that is definitely not normal and needs checking out and then you say it needs checking out even at 10k miles. What do you mean by every 10k miles, surely it would be normal to top it off a bit over that long of a mileage no?
I checked yesterday after 3k miles and added 10-15 milliliters with a syringe to get it back to the middle level when it was just slightly above the lower level.
So after 10k miles id expect to top off by 30-40 mL, so would that be something normal or needs checking out? And what do you mean by checking out?

Offline EscCtrl

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Re: Water pump and coolant replacement info.
Reply #4 on: July 28, 2017, 02:09:23 PM
*Originally Posted by Tremaux [+]
Im confused, you said you lose a quart every 50-100miles and that is definitely not normal and needs checking out and then you say it needs checking out even at 10k miles. What do you mean by every 10k miles, surely it would be normal to top it off a bit over that long of a mileage no?
I checked yesterday after 3k miles and added 10-15 milliliters with a syringe to get it back to the middle level when it was just slightly above the lower level.
So after 10k miles id expect to top off by 30-40 mL, so would that be something normal or needs checking out? And what do you mean by checking out?

As you can see here, I replaced the water pump because it was leaking a quart every 50-100 miles. I think a normal operating cooling system should need to be topped off about every 10,000 miles. I think this because members here have reported not losing any coolant. I would say 30-40 ml over 10,000 seems about right to me.

As long as the coolant level stays between the high and low level, the bike isn't losing coolant. The expansion of the coolant will overflow into the reservoir and when the level in the radiator gets low, it pulls the coolant back into the radiator. I witnessed this while I was servicing my bike. I watch as the coolant expands and runs into the reservoir as the engine gets hot. I shut the bike down, allow it to cool, and check the radiator coolant level and it is full. I restart the bike and when it warms up the coolant is pulled back into the radiator from the reservoir when the thermostat opens. This back and forth with the coolant seems to happen when the thermostat opens and closes from the system heating up and cooling down. When the radiator gets too warm, the fan starts running to cool it down.

I also found that my radiator fan is operating properly now. Before, the coolant level would get low and the sensor wouldn't be immersed in coolant and the radiator fan wouldn't come on.

Offline Tremaux

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Re: Water pump and coolant replacement info.
Reply #5 on: July 28, 2017, 02:40:54 PM
Alright thank you, i changed oil recently to 10W-30 Castrol and was worried that might have caused anything to fail with the pump. Dealer had 10W-40 before. Anyway ill continue monitoring.

Offline EscCtrl

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Re: Water pump and coolant replacement info.
Reply #6 on: July 29, 2017, 03:09:02 AM
*Originally Posted by Tremaux [+]
Alright thank you, i changed oil recently to 10W-30 Castrol and was worried that might have caused anything to fail with the pump. Dealer had 10W-40 before. Anyway ill continue monitoring.

I ride 10 months out of the year. I run 15w-40 Rotella T diesel oil in all of my bikes. No problems with the CB500X running 10w-40.

Offline Tremaux

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Re: Water pump and coolant replacement info.
Reply #7 on: July 29, 2017, 04:29:03 PM
*Originally Posted by EscCtrl [+]
I ride 10 months out of the year. I run 15w-40 Rotella T diesel oil in all of my bikes. No problems with the CB500X running 10w-40.

I read some people getting leaks with synthetic oils here (i know it should be a myth) and wierd stuff, and others that had no issue, so ill be monitoring both oil and water a bit to ease my mind.
The only thing i noticed different with 10w30 is clutch is a bit more on/off than before. 10w40 had a bit better clutch modulation. Anyway 10w30 is in the manual and seeing how temperatures here are average low around 10-12C throughout the year i figured 10w40 will be too thick in the winter especially.
Another thing that I'm trying to confirm is fuel consumption, there seems to be better consumption on 10w30 but I dont have enough data yet.
Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 04:30:45 PM by Tremaux

Offline EscCtrl

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Re: Water pump and coolant replacement info.
Reply #8 on: July 29, 2017, 06:27:47 PM
*Originally Posted by Tremaux [+]
I read some people getting leaks with synthetic oils here (i know it should be a myth) and wierd stuff, and others that had no issue, so ill be monitoring both oil and water a bit to ease my mind.
The only thing i noticed different with 10w30 is clutch is a bit more on/off than before. 10w40 had a bit better clutch modulation. Anyway 10w30 is in the manual and seeing how temperatures here are average low around 10-12C throughout the year i figured 10w40 will be too thick in the winter especially.
Another thing that I'm trying to confirm is fuel consumption, there seems to be better consumption on 10w30 but I dont have enough data yet.

My 600-mile oil change was done with synthetic 10-30. I burnt through a quart of it in 3000 miles. Then I went to my old stand by 15w-40 Rotella T and I haven't burnt any oil since.

Offline EscCtrl

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Re: Water pump and coolant replacement info.
Reply #9 on: July 30, 2017, 11:43:08 PM
I finished up the cooling system today and reassembled the bike. No leaks were found. I topped off the coolant reservoir to the upper level. I intentionally left it empty to see how much, if any coolant would remain in the reservoir after letting the bike sit and cool off when I initially ran the bike, after replacing the water pump. I left the bike with just a bit of coolant in the bottom of the reservoir. When I checked it today, that coolant was pulled back into the system. I checked the radiator and it was completely full. I started and ran the bike for about 30 minutes. It took 20 minutes for it to build enough heat to kick the fan on. The fan would run for about 30 to 45 seconds and shut down. Then it would cycle like that every five to ten minutes. It was 87*F (30.5C) here today and about 60% humidity.

I took the bike for a mile ride after it ran up to temp. I had no problems. The fan never kicked on during the ride, just like it did when the bike was new. When I brought it back home, I let it idle while I checked it over. The fan did kick on, ran a little less than a minute, and shut down. I put the bike back in the building. So far every thing seems to be repaired and running perfectly. Only a long ride will tell the tale.

I have some medical tests to do tomorrow morning. If I have time, I'll go do my exercising, come home, bleed the brakes with fresh fluid, wash her up, and hopefully go for a nice long ride Tuesday or Wednesday, if I don't have to do any more medical tests on one of those days.

Fingers crossed, I'll only have medical tests on Monday and Friday. If Mondays tests are off, I'll have to go back Tuesday or Wednesday. As long as I feel fine and have no fatigue, I'm going to ride when I can and as much as I can until the doctor says to stop. We communicate about my hobbies and activities. It lets him know if I'm having problems keeping up with them. If I start having problems, he'll know what test to run and what to check to get me back on track.

Thank you all for the out pouring of support.

 



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