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Offline Pejas

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Level 1 Fork Upgrade Kit RRP 460
« on: June 13, 2018, 07:55:06 PM »
Hey
I've taken seriously for adjusting the suspension.
Current set - Level 1 Fork Upgrade Kit RRP 460, rear CBR600F4 shock absorber.
In the front I do not have preload plugs. 10w Motul oil used
Together with the accessories, I weigh 107 kg.

Until now, I was sure that the front suspension is too hard. Especially on the holes.
Today, I have made measurements and I do not know what to think.
Deflection of the front suspension with a rider is 4.7cm. It seems that it is definitely too big. (Can you correct the preload? Right?)

However, the maximum range of deflection of the front suspension is 10.5 cm. It seems not enough. Will I be able to get a bigger jump with this equipment?

Deflection 10.5cm measured after driving in OFFROAD.
Deflection on asphalt is 7.9cm.
Will it be possible to pull something out of this set?

Offline Oyabun

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Re: Level 1 Fork Upgrade Kit RRP 460
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2018, 06:52:58 AM »
Cześć,
 
 I think you should change your suspension the other way around. I mean with 10w fork oil it most probably overdamped, and without proper sag setting it is probably too deep in the stroke at the start to be able to effectively use the whole suspension travel.
Fir ts of all, have you started by finding total extension by unloading the front end, by raising it from the floor? All measurements should start from this zero point. (Practically you measure full extension from the lower triple, and calculate all measurements from that reference).
Why I'm asking, is that the stock CB500x front suspension travel (and thus level1 travel) should be 140mm. If you only measure 105mm total travel, then either your reference point is false (so you start measuring everything from static sag or something is wrong with your forks.
I assume the first in my post.
Rider sag is expected to be around 1/3 rd of total suspension travel, in this case about 46.66mm - from total extension. As you said you have measured 47mm so it is almost spot on if measured right. If it is measured from static sag (so when the bike stands on its two wheels) then it is too much.

So my advise:
Check some good guides how to measure and set sag by some reputable resources. If needed get a preload adjuster and make sure you're at the right part of the suspension stroke by setting sag properly.

Go down to 5w fork oil as recommended by the Rally Raid installation manual. The parts are set for this, and the forks will be too harsh with the 10w oil you use.

I'm not the authority on this, but my feeling is that the 500x even with the longer travel Level2 suspension is still no dirt bike. It is a bit porky and short legged to make large jumps. But it is perfectly fine for what is intended if the suspension has been set up right.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 07:00:04 AM by Oyabun »

Offline Prestone

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Re: Level 1 Fork Upgrade Kit RRP 460
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2018, 07:40:05 PM »
Remember when choosing a fork oil that the W value dont make much sense since there is no standard for the forkoil viscosity based on the W.

You want to take a look at the CST value instead, and a good place to start for a comfy plush ride with RR valve in is about 15 CST.

You can take a look at these for reference.

https://www.cb500x.com/index.php/topic,7182.0.html

https://transmoto.com.au/Comparative-Oil-Weights-Table/

http://mahonkin.com/~milktree/motorcycles/fork-oil.html


Offline Oyabun

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Re: Level 1 Fork Upgrade Kit RRP 460
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2018, 11:19:15 PM »
*Originally Posted by Prestone [+]
Remember when choosing a fork oil that the W value dont make much sense since there is no standard for the forkoil viscosity based on the W.

You want to take a look at the CST value instead, and a good place to start for a comfy plush ride with RR valve in is about 15 CST.

You can take a look at these for reference.

https://www.cb500x.com/index.php/topic,7182.0.html

https://transmoto.com.au/Comparative-Oil-Weights-Table/

http://mahonkin.com/~milktree/motorcycles/fork-oil.html

+1 My post was quite lengthy so did not want to get too deep, but perfect addition.

I have the Peter Verdone's list in a local excel copy for ages so never checked for a newer source, but any cross reference is good to see. I especially like the transmoto.au link - thanks.

@Pejas: I personally like a bit more damping (coming from a circuit racing background) so I'd use a bit more damping than 15 sCt.
As an example I use AGIP 5W fork oil usually, as I have access that from a reputable source, and it has the highest reference (meaning the most consistent viscosity). Here's a link the Agip/Eni line of fork fluids. http://www.oliehandel.nl/files/7/manuals/1461663209Eni%20Fork%207.5.pdf
And one for Motul Factory line oils: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/motul-production2/images/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/2617/Fork-Oil_Expert_TDS__28GB_29.pdf

If you check the above documents for 40DegC viscosities, the 15sCt suggested by Prestone is less than 1/2d of Motul 10w factory line fluid (which is 35,9). Even their light -5w- fluid is 17,9mm2/s. If you have access locally to 5w Motul fluid, I suggest to use that as a start and check if your damping gets waay more copliant.

Offline Pejas

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Re: Level 1 Fork Upgrade Kit RRP 460
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2018, 10:18:54 AM »
Thank you very much for the very reliable approach to the case :)

I will read the material and I will try to apply it to my settings

Offline Oyabun

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Re: Level 1 Fork Upgrade Kit RRP 460
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2018, 06:16:47 PM »
Pejas,

I wonder if you got anything out of this discussion. Any improvements in the front suspension?

Offline Pejas

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Re: Level 1 Fork Upgrade Kit RRP 460
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2018, 08:24:27 PM »
Hey
the surgery went well
I removed the lag caps, and with a syringe and tube I removed 50% of the 10w oil. I added 50% 2,5w and the effect was very good. I made 3kkm and added 10% more to 2.5w. Now it's perfect.

The front fork works in all its scope.

I am currently waiting for the preloader caps. This will probably end the modification of the front suspension. Now I am looking for a good, fat and wide handlebar.

edit:
I used 10w and 5w motul oil.
as you can see, driving 80 km / h on dirt roads is possible.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 08:40:25 PM by Pejas »

 


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