Honda CB500X

Main CB500X Boards => CB500X - General Chat => Topic started by: gregjet on September 13, 2018, 09:36:00 PM

Title: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: gregjet on September 13, 2018, 09:36:00 PM
I have my CB500X now for my project. One thing I would like to know is if a CBR500R seat or a F model will fit on the X?
My project is primarily a weight loss one and I prefer smaller seats anyway.
Tried a search but only got refs saying how they liked the bigger seat.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: Jonathan on September 13, 2018, 09:47:35 PM
*Originally Posted by gregjet [+]
I have my CB500X now for my project. One thing I would like to know is if a CBR500R seat or a F model will fit on the X?
My project is primarily a weight loss one and I prefer smaller seats anyway.
Tried a search but only got refs saying how they liked the bigger seat.

I'd try your local dealer, if no joy on the forum...or maybe ask on a CBR owner's forum. the frame is supposed to be the same, but perhaps the panel gaps and tank location may be different, which would affect the seat. 
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: Jonathan on September 13, 2018, 09:51:12 PM
*Originally Posted by gregjet [+]
I have my CB500X now for my project. One thing I would like to know is if a CBR500R seat or a F model will fit on the X?
My project is primarily a weight loss one and I prefer smaller seats anyway.
Tried a search but only got refs saying how they liked the bigger seat.

(https://cdn.img.cb500x.com/img_03.gif)


I reckon you'd be better sourcing a stock seat from a breaker and modifying it.
Looks like the CBR would fit, but would still need a tweak...i may be wrong.

One things for sure, you could use the additional rear space for better luggage carrying, and lose the pillion pegs to shed a few grammes

In the UK if a bike has a 'double' seat, it has to have pillion pegs to pass an MoT and vice versa
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: gregjet on September 13, 2018, 09:53:59 PM
Well I know the tank is bigger. I have been caught before assuming that similar ( even same model) seats fit between bikes.  Just putting it out there in case anyone has tried it.
Where I used to live I knew the dealer well enough to try it( I used to race with him and some of his staff), but the local dealer here is a seller not a motorcyclist and couldn't care less.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: CaptainCranky on September 13, 2018, 10:05:51 PM
I Have the X and my Wife has the F. There's no way the seats are cross compatible. As someone else said you'd be better off getting a seat from a wrecker and modding it yourself.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: gregjet on September 14, 2018, 12:50:23 AM
Thanks for that Cpt Cranky.
It's really only whether the base fits on the chgassis mount points ( lock won't of course but I can fix that.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: CaptainCranky on September 14, 2018, 12:58:41 AM
*Originally Posted by gregjet [+]
Thanks for that Cpt Cranky.
It's really only whether the base fits on the chgassis mount points ( lock won't of course but I can fix that.

 :152:

I can't check that for you at the minute as my bike's all loaded up for a trip. I'll see if i can check that out on my return if it helps.

cool - on another "note"... her Arrow Pipe is TOTALLY compatible, but I fear certain death would be the outcome if I nicked it  :114: :005: :455:
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: Oyabun on September 14, 2018, 05:51:29 AM
We have the same seteup, an X for me, and F for wife.
No way the seat will cross-fit. While the main structure of the subframe is the same, the latches and all other mounts are different.
In case you want to xchange seats, you gotya change the whole subframe too.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: gregjet on September 14, 2018, 08:09:25 AM
Also very useful. The fact that the main assembly is the same is a plus. May be possible. I will try and get hold of one to see if it can be made to fit sensibly. I actually have a KTM690 duke ergo seat which MAY be made to fit. It have it on very good authority via, " Did I ever tell you this the THE most comfortable motorcycle seat I have ever sat on" statement , repeatedly coming through the intercom from my girlfriend for 7000km as we rode to and from Phillip Island in 2014...
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: Oyabun on September 14, 2018, 08:15:53 AM
I've shot a few pictures in the garage with the F seat on the X, and also of the F subframe - what's visible of it at least.

The good part, that the lower front latching around the  back of the airbox and below the tank lip is simar, so the F seat's front is supported. But good news stop here. The rear lower part of the tank is shaped to accomodate and lock the upward sloping lip of the seat front, you have to cut off the tab from the tank and make it fit. Also tabs should be welded on to be able screw down the rear part of the F seat pan. On the F and R subframes there is a crossmember to mount the separate rear seat or cowl -  on the X it is not existent. Also the oe rear seat  is latched at the aforementioned crossmember, while the X seat is locked at the rear.
Im not saying it cannot be done, but it is quite an intensive process and you might end up with the same or heavier weight and less holding capacity than the stocker setup.

Tried to upload the pics, but no joy now and I cannot resize them on mobile. Send me a pm with your email and I ssnd them to you.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: Oyabun on September 14, 2018, 10:15:23 AM
Sent email with the pictures.
What's your weight loss goal with the 500x?
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: gregjet on September 14, 2018, 12:10:28 PM
Got the pics. Really useful. Sent email reply.
No goal. Project and experiment. Look at everything an think about what can be changed and what cannot.
My last project was a GS500F. Similar goal with some updating. Ended up 20kg lighter. Lots of Aluminium for steel and carbon fibre fabrication. Here are some pics from just before I sold it.
(https://cdn.img.cb500x.com/P5230002.jpg)
(https://cdn.img.cb500x.com/P5230003.jpg)
(https://cdn.img.cb500x.com/P5230004.jpg)
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: Oyabun on September 14, 2018, 01:01:28 PM
Nice bike. It was a steal for 1600.  :-)

I think I understand.
I'm also a kind of person who always looking for things that can be improved, and as an engineer I automatically trust anyone with a lathe in the garage.

When I was racing, we used to start with removing weight from anything rotating and unsprung (wheels and brakes) first, then non-rotating unsprung (suspension), rotating masses (engine internals, clutch, etc), general "dead" weight from top and furthest of CoG to center in this order. So in principle while I would never spend money on titanium engine bolts (being expensive and very close to CoG) but would spend money and time replacing brake caliper banjo bolts and look into fitting a ligher cast alu swingarm.

I have a huge excel file subtly named as "CB500x_reengineering" on my computer with a ton of haphazad information from spring rate calculations to weight loss ordered in cost/gr, to cam profile measurements and design. Also on the cbr500r forums I have somewhat neglected topic listing weights of all OEM parts of the bike.
On my project bike (the older X) I've done the basics of de-cat headers, akra slipon, li-ion battery, etc and lost about 5 kilograms.
However I can say that while your suzuki looks like a track day bike, I'm using the X for touring so I have lot more constrains regarding usability.
So while dropping the passenger rearsets, and left side passenger rearset mount and replace the exhaust hanger with a lightweigh CF part would net a good 500gr loss of weight in total - i still need the rear pegs. Also a cnc milled rider rearset would save some significant weight I need my rearsets very sturdy. Depending the MY of your bike swapping 2013-16 (rider) rearsets to 2017+, saves about 480gr. Tried titanium platform pedals off from a YZ450R, but those are not too long living and each side worth a kidney - so sold them for the same price before they desintegrated.
Also the subframe is quite a heavy lump - replacing with one that is custom made from ally, would save some significant weight far from CoG, but I need to carry two persons and luggage - so fatigue breaks which ally is very prone of are out of the picture for me. However cutting the rearmost part of the subframe what holds the number plate normally and installing a tail tidy can also drop about 1200gr.
I'm happy to continue with other stuff on my list, but I guess we better to either continue in private or open a new topic to this.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: Jonathan on September 14, 2018, 06:24:15 PM
*Originally Posted by Oyabun [+]
Nice bike. It was a steal for 1600.  :-)

I think I understand.
I'm also a kind of person who always looking for things that can be improved, and as an engineer I automatically trust anyone with a lathe in the garage.

When I was racing, we used to start with removing weight from anything rotating and unsprung (wheels and brakes) first, then non-rotating unsprung (suspension), rotating masses (engine internals, clutch, etc), general "dead" weight from top and furthest of CoG to center in this order. So in principle while I would never spend money on titanium engine bolts (being expensive and very close to CoG) but would spend money and time replacing brake caliper banjo bolts and look into fitting a ligher cast alu swingarm.

I have a huge excel file subtly named as "CB500x_reengineering" on my computer with a ton of haphazad information from spring rate calculations to weight loss ordered in cost/gr, to cam profile measurements and design. Also on the cbr500r forums I have somewhat neglected topic listing weights of all OEM parts of the bike.
On my project bike (the older X) I've done the basics of de-cat headers, akra slipon, li-ion battery, etc and lost about 5 kilograms.
However I can say that while your suzuki looks like a track day bike, I'm using the X for touring so I have lot more constrains regarding usability.
So while dropping the passenger rearsets, and left side passenger rearset mount and replace the exhaust hanger with a lightweigh CF part would net a good 500gr loss of weight in total - i still need the rear pegs. Also a cnc milled rider rearset would save some significant weight I need my rearsets very sturdy. Depending the MY of your bike swapping 2013-16 (rider) rearsets to 2017+, saves about 480gr. Tried titanium platform pedals off from a YZ450R, but those are not too long living and each side worth a kidney - so sold them for the same price before they desintegrated.
Also the subframe is quite a heavy lump - replacing with one that is custom made from ally, would save some significant weight far from CoG, but I need to carry two persons and luggage - so fatigue breaks which ally is very prone of are out of the picture for me. However cutting the rearmost part of the subframe what holds the number plate normally and installing a tail tidy can also drop about 1200gr.
I'm happy to continue with other stuff on my list, but I guess we better to either continue in private or open a new topic to this.
No....carry on in public!  :152: Always good to hear what folks are doing...

Yet to see a swingarm conversion for the off roaders...not heard any reports of the pressed steel one going pear-shaped even under duress (Tet, Tat etc.) so it may not be an issue, but a stronger, less flexible arse end is always a boon, especially if you're running a fancy shock
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: gregjet on September 14, 2018, 08:34:45 PM
Actually the Suzy is set up for touring not track. The F fairing is a pretty good touring fairing and if I had kept it it would have gained a upper clear spoiler ( actually it would be a draw duct as well to stop vortex shedding). The pegs were not rearset but bio designed to be in the most neutral position. On the Suzy sheading weight was pretty easy as the bike was originally designed in the 80's and things like the footpeg assembly weighed 2.6 kg and the new aluminium based ones weighed 528grams with no loss of strength ( perhaps stronger actually).
With that in mind I looked at the pegs on the X. Just the pegs at the moment. Gives me hope for more. Stock unmolested peg weighs 334g, stripped peg weighs 77grams. Difference 257g. So 2 pegs stripped weigh half a kg with no loss of function ( I detest rubber pegs) or strength.

(https://cdn.img.cb500x.com/P9140008.jpg)
(https://cdn.img.cb500x.com/P9140009.jpg)
(https://cdn.img.cb500x.com/P9140007.jpg)

You say you are an engineer ( I am not, just an enthusiastic tinkerer). Are you a user of Tony Foale's suspension software?. If so do you have the datum points for the CBX500 rear suspension ( or all of them for that matter)?

I am surprised there is no "Project" area and considering the info on the forum and no stickies in the thread areas.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: gregjet on September 14, 2018, 08:45:14 PM
By the way, the single seat is a requirement for single seat registration in Queensland for cheaper registration ( really cheaper 3rd party insurance mainly). The X will be similarly shortened which also allows a better rack for touring.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: gregjet on September 20, 2018, 10:57:14 PM
Go a second hand one yesterday. FITS STRAIGHT ON! Front fit straight into the retainers. Easy to make a bracket to fit the stock key activated lock/release, even has threaded holes at the side to make a crosspiece of the lock. I can now see if I can fit my ex TR650 rear carry rack on as well.
To stop ball removal I will have to make a cover for the CX front seat hold down bracket though.

(https://cdn.img.cb500x.com/seat-cbr2fd38b94f0f38657.jpg)
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: gregjet on September 26, 2018, 09:31:46 PM
Well that was a bit easy. A 270 x35x6mm piece of aluminium two holes for 6mm bolts into the existing bolt holes on the frame and 2 x20mm spacers and 6mm bolts, through the existing seat holes at the back. . All holes in line. Done.

(https://cdn.img.cb500x.com/cbrseat-2.jpg)
(https://cdn.img.cb500x.com/cbrseat-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Has anyone tried a cbr500r or f seat on a cb500x
Post by: gregjet on September 26, 2018, 09:33:31 PM
I can consider making a rear seat replacement cover or a rear rack with a little compartment below.