Honda CB500X

Accessories, Mods, Products, and Clothing => Modifications, Accessories, and Appearance => Topic started by: ThirtyOne on February 14, 2019, 12:29:15 AM

Title: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on February 14, 2019, 12:29:15 AM
I bought the 20" system for my 2013 and spent some hours going up and down the highway trying different setups in hopes of finding the fabled "perfect bubble".

After playing around with my Madstad screen I'm making some progress. Thought I would share my experience for those who might be looking at the Madstad setup. Windscreens are expensive and a lot of times you don't know what works until you try it. So maybe someone will find this helpful.

I'm 6' tall and my bike has 2" Rox risers tilted back to put me about in the middle of the seat, if not a little further back. I have pretty good posture, and try to keep my shoulders from rounding and my head up.

I found that the screen is best in the highest position with the screen tilted towards me one notch from the most allowable. (The new brackets now have teeth that give you one of 8 or 9 rake positions).

I got a lot of turbulence in every position until I switched to a sun-visorless helmet, going from an Arai XD-4 to a normal street bike helmet. Now, with the street helmet, and helmet closed, I get zero turbulence at 55-65mph on the highway and very little noise. It's doing its job.

When I flip the street helmet's screen up at 55-65mph, the turbulence is very strong. When I close the helmet back up, boom, back to quiet again. So where is that air coming from? Down low. I put my hand in the gap under the windscreen between the beak and the screen and I can feel a lot of air coming up from the bracket area.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/amqhTHL.jpg)

I know Palmer sells a baffle to stop this on their bracket system, so I thought about doing some testing. Today I blocked off the air from that center section (similar to the Palmer baffle area) and did a few highway runs with my helmet open and closed.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/9u5yXva.jpg)

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/PxLZ4Gg.jpg)

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/Jnvcsf4.jpg)

This blocked all of the area from that center section, obviously, but opening my helmet at 55-60mph still brings the turbulence. Passing my hand over that center section at speed it felt calm, no air coming by, but there is probably still a lot of air coming around that center section. I suspect that maybe the air coming from the right and left sides of the bracket legs (to the right and left of where the towels are) need to be blocked as well.

What I learned thus far:

The 20" screen in the highest setting, tilted back, can get me super close to the "perfect bubble". The only issue is that it only works when my helmet is closed. Also, the screen is not impeding my field of view. I don't like to look through my windscreen nor have it right at my eye level. It's just low enough that I can easily see over it and it's working well when the helmet is closed. I need to figure out how to get the same bubble when the helmet is both open and closed, as I mostly ride with the helmet open here in Honduras.

I'll keep experimenting with towels to block off the other parts, and if it works I'll have a local welder make me some kind of block off plate to attach.

On a side note, I don't care for how the screen flaps around on the Madstad bracket. It's stable enough to hang on, but man does it dance. Another thought is to switch to a taller Puig or Givi screen that mounts directly to the OEM windshield brackets and if I need to add some height (similar to the 20" that the Madstad gives me), I could add the Bruut brackets to get the height. There, it would be mounted closer to the beak area and perhaps the turbulence caused from the air passing under the screen might be substantially less.

Will post an update as it comes along.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Oldhorse on February 14, 2019, 01:45:14 AM
Six feet and 34" inseam also with my 20" Madstad adjusted a bit lower for best but just mediocre results...same as your helmet description. Better than stock, tried all possible Madstad positions, but much room for improvement.
Been thinking the side deflectors could be an inch longer. Was thinking of a custom bracket to only allow 3/4" air gap as I think the Madstad bracket air gap is excessive.
 Also had to grind a contour for hand guard clearance on the sides of the screen. I might take some thin plywood or plastic and make some alternate shapes of screen to try.
 I also think the bracket shakes way too much and is flimsy on gravel roads, especially washboard bumps.
I can only give this design a "C" grade.
The Africa Twin forums talk of an air can in front of the tank to block buffetting air coming up the fork tunnel which could be tried on the CBX.
I've got 2.5 more months of winter before any experiments can begin though.
Very interested in your results.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: richardbd on February 14, 2019, 10:57:29 AM
Going through the same process with CalSci, which Iíve just had cut down a bit and (the current favourite) Puig.

Do those winglets on the side of the tank come with the Madstad - if not, where did you get them?

I have the same set-up on my GS and the winglets work a treat...
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on February 14, 2019, 12:15:05 PM
*Originally Posted by Oldhorse [+]
Six feet and 34" inseam also with my 20" Madstad adjusted a bit lower for best but just mediocre results...same as your helmet description. Better than stock, tried all possible Madstad positions, but much room for improvement.
Been thinking the side deflectors could be an inch longer. Was thinking of a custom bracket to only allow 3/4" air gap as I think the Madstad bracket air gap is excessive.
 Also had to grind a contour for hand guard clearance on the sides of the screen. I might take some thin plywood or plastic and make some alternate shapes of screen to try.
 I also think the bracket shakes way too much and is flimsy on gravel roads, especially washboard bumps.
I can only give this design a "C" grade.
The Africa Twin forums talk of an air can in front of the tank to block buffetting air coming up the fork tunnel which could be tried on the CBX.
I've got 2.5 more months of winter before any experiments can begin though.
Very interested in your results.

It's quite a process, I know. After finding what works with my helmet closed, I'm optimistic that I can figure it out with the helmet open. Definitely agree with you on the design, it's flimsy. I can't imagine how bad it would be off road.

My friend recently got an Africa Twin and now that you mention it, he was saying that same thing about blocking off air in the tunnel. I havent the even looked at that area as a potential problem. Thanks for mentioning it.

*Originally Posted by richardbd [+]
Going through the same process with CalSci, which Iíve just had cut down a bit and (the current favourite) Puig.

Do those winglets on the side of the tank come with the Madstad - if not, where did you get them?

I have the same set-up on my GS and the winglets work a treat...

They came with the Madstad setup, but you can order them individually.  :821:
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: richardbd on February 14, 2019, 12:17:33 PM
*Originally Posted by ThirtyOne [+]
They came with the Madstad setup, but you can order them individually.  :821:

 :152:
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Oyabun on February 14, 2019, 12:42:25 PM
Many folks on the Africa twin forums are installing air deflectors over the hole coming up between the forks and the tank - and claiming much less turbulence behind the screen. We might also give that a try.

Like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Africa-Twin-CRF-1000-L-2016-18-Updraft-Wind-Deflector-ABS-carbon-Look/254029769121

p.s. now I see that someone else has pointed to this direction too.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on February 14, 2019, 02:43:55 PM
*Originally Posted by Oyabun [+]
Many folks on the Africa twin forums are installing air deflectors over the hole coming up between the forks and the tank - and claiming much less turbulence behind the screen. We might also give that a try.

Like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Africa-Twin-CRF-1000-L-2016-18-Updraft-Wind-Deflector-ABS-carbon-Look/254029769121

p.s. now I see that someone else has pointed to this direction too.

 :821:

Thanks. I took a long look at that tunnel this morning before my ride to work. There really isn't much space to move around in there, it's all pretty tight. On my ride in, I took a few seconds to feel for air coming up through that area. It's really minimal, like practically nothing at 55mph.

After having slept on it and talking it over with some friends, I'm beginning to think that I'll look into going back to a system that mounts to the OEM screen brackets. Now that I know the degree of rake the screen needs and the height to get a comfortable ride with my helmet closed, I can replicate those two, height and rake, with a different screen. I'm looking Givi and Puig screens, both are in the 19" range, and mounted in the "high" position on brackets will give me around the same height as the Madstad in the highest position (which works when my helmet is closed). This setup will substantially close the gap between the bike and the screen.

Then, I can use some weatherstripping or some other solution to block off the bottom area if I'm still getting too much air coming from under the screen.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on February 14, 2019, 08:58:50 PM
Crowd sourced wind tunnel testing session anyone? :008:

Seriously, the number of riders (especially adv types) that complain about buffeting is incredible when you consider how much money some of this machinery costs. Would a car manufacturer get away with a vehicle that hums terribly at a certain speed, or knocks the drivers head around when you open the window?

Considering the fatigue it induces, you could argue that a badly designed screen is a safety issue. How difficult would it be to knock up modelling software and test according to different scenarios, rider position, etc?

Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on February 15, 2019, 12:35:57 AM
An update.

I took some measurements today and here's what I'm working with:

According to the level in my iPhone, the Madstad screen is creating the "perfect bubble" with helmet closed is at a 40 degree angle. Madstad recommends 55-60 degrees. I have tried a more upright angle and from what I've seen, it doesn't work for me. I'll look into the 60 degree setting over the weekend when I have more time. Yesterday, I tried the rolled towel blocking setup with the rake more upright and it yielded turbulence with the helmet closed. I dropped it back down to 40 degrees and got my "bubble" back.

Today I measured from the top "high" mounting holes to the top of the Madstad screen. I got about 13.5".

The 2016+ factory screen is 9" from the top mounting holes to the top of the screen. So, it would appear that if I had the 16+ factory screen + the Bruudt bracket (+2" gain at it's highest) I would have 11" of height from the "high" mounting holes to the top of the screen. That's 2.5" lower than what's working for me now with the Madstad system.

I was hoping that I could get the 13.5" from the OEM screen as it's only $55 on Bikebandit. Puig and Givi screens are considerably more.

The next test is to lower my Madstad screen the 2.5" and see how it works with the helmet closed.

Another thing to think about is that the Madstad moves the entire screen towards the front of the bike. If I were to mount the screen directly to the OEM brackets (no Madstad bracket), will it still create that "bubble" with my helmet closed with 13.5" of height? Or does moving it closer to the rider onto the OEM brackets change everything? In essence the screen will be closer to me and therefore might need more rake to get it to kick up and over my helmet. I measured the angle of the OEM brackets on my bike. They are at about a 55 degree angle (in line with what Madstad recommends). So maybe that'll give me the rake needed to throw the air up over my helmet.

The next step is to block off under the screen some more with additional towels and see if that makes any difference with the Madstad system. If I can't stop the turbulence with my helmet open, I'll be moving on from the Madstad system.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Oldhorse on February 15, 2019, 04:08:22 AM
If you get a chance try blocking air with the towels on the right and left lateral screen sides with an open air, fist size, channel at screen center. A nice air deflector could be fabricated there if it worked.  I also think the Madstad works well until 55-60 mph but the 70-80 mph is another league of difficulty. I thank you from my "winterland no test zone" .
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on February 17, 2019, 06:52:23 PM
Had a little time today to continue testing.

Yesterday I went out with my friend with his 2018 X and I took it up and down the highway with my street helmet this time. This is how I would rate his OEM screen (in the high position) vs. my Madstad setup.

On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the worst, and 10 being perfect at 55-65mph. I chose this speed because at lower speeds it's mostly bearable in any configuration. I'm mostly looking to get my bike more comfortable for traveling and many of the roads in Central America, highways included, are comfortable at that speed. I realize that 70-80mph is much more common in the USA, but the pace is just slower down here.

Madstad
Helmet closed: 9/10. Practically zero buffeting. Very little wind noise. Just a little patter on the top of the helmet from time to time.
Helmet open: 2/10. Massive buffeting. Head being battered around.

2018 OEM screen
Helmet closed: 5/10. Some constant buffeting, but not super aggressive. Still not comfortable for a long ride.
Helmet open: 5/10. Feels almost the same as when the helmet is closed.

I tried ducking down on my friend's 2018 to see if it's just an inch or two that would clean up the air. It didn't seem to make any noticeable difference, meaning, to me, a Bruudt bracket probably wouldn't help me with the OEM screen (it's just 2" of additional height).

Today I continued to play with the Madstad setup, this time blocking off more area with the towels. All in all, I don't think that it made really much difference at all. Looking at the bike, it also considered the side Madstad tank deflectors as well as the Barkbusters shields as possible causes for channeling air up my face to grab the open visor of my helmet and creating this turbulence. I might take them off for a trial run... I might just be chasing my tail at this point. And, I don't think making a block off plate for the Madstad is going to solve my problem either.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/m4hzYQ7.jpg)

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/9noUMJf.jpg)

What I'm beginning to conclude is that the Madstad setup, for me, just won't work. I know some of you have had great results with it, and I'm glad that it works for you. But, this guy has to start looking into other options, ideally simply mounting a screen to the OEM brackets.

I was able to ride semi-comfortably with my helmet open with the OEM 2018 screened bike, so perhaps +4-5 inches of extra height is what I need.

Going through the options and I see Givi, Vario, Puig, Cali Science and a few other companies that make screens in the height range I'm looking for.

Feel free to chime in with any reviews or thoughts about an aftermarket screen if you have one.

I had the Vario screen on my 650 Strom and it had that little pop-up deflector screen thing. Seemed to work ok. Overall that screen was just too short for me (I replaced that with a Madstad and it actually worked great). So considering going that direction. Or just go with one of the other brands listed above. Currently leaning towards Givi or Puig.

Will update you guys once I get to the next step. It'll probably be in 2-3 weeks. The mail is slow here.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on February 17, 2019, 07:45:35 PM
*Originally Posted by ThirtyOne [+]
Had a little time today to continue testing.

Yesterday I went out with my friend with his 2018 X and I took it up and down the highway with my street helmet this time. This is how I would rate his OEM screen (in the high position) vs. my Madstad setup.

On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the worst, and 10 being perfect at 55-65mph. I chose this speed because at lower speeds it's mostly bearable in any configuration. I'm mostly looking to get my bike more comfortable for traveling and many of the roads in Central America, highways included, are comfortable at that speed. I realize that 70-80mph is much more common in the USA, but the pace is just slower down here.

Madstad
Helmet closed: 9/10. Practically zero buffeting. Very little wind noise. Just a little patter on the top of the helmet from time to time.
Helmet open: 2/10. Massive buffeting. Head being battered around.

2018 OEM screen
Helmet closed: 5/10. Some constant buffeting, but not super aggressive. Still not comfortable for a long ride.
Helmet open: 5/10. Feels almost the same as when the helmet is closed.

I tried ducking down on my friend's 2018 to see if it's just an inch or two that would clean up the air. It didn't seem to make any noticeable difference, meaning, to me, a Bruudt bracket probably wouldn't help me with the OEM screen (it's just 2" of additional height).

Today I continued to play with the Madstad setup, this time blocking off more area with the towels. All in all, I don't think that it made really much difference at all. Looking at the bike, it also considered the side Madstad tank deflectors as well as the Barkbusters shields as possible causes for channeling air up my face to grab the open visor of my helmet and creating this turbulence. I might take them off for a trial run... I might just be chasing my tail at this point. And, I don't think making a block off plate for the Madstad is going to solve my problem either.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/m4hzYQ7.jpg)

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/9noUMJf.jpg)

What I'm beginning to conclude is that the Madstad setup, for me, just won't work. I know some of you have had great results with it, and I'm glad that it works for you. But, this guy has to start looking into other options, ideally simply mounting a screen to the OEM brackets.

I was able to ride semi-comfortably with my helmet open with the OEM 2018 screened bike, so perhaps +4-5 inches of extra height is what I need.

Going through the options and I see Givi, Vario, Puig, Cali Science and a few other companies that make screens in the height range I'm looking for.

Feel free to chime in with any reviews or thoughts about an aftermarket screen if you have one.

I had the Vario screen on my 650 Strom and it had that little pop-up deflector screen thing. Seemed to work ok. Overall that screen was just too short for me (I replaced that with a Madstad and it actually worked great). So considering going that direction. Or just go with one of the other brands listed above. Currently leaning towards Givi or Puig.

Will update you guys once I get to the next step. It'll probably be in 2-3 weeks. The mail is slow here.

I have the opposite 'issue'....I use an X Lite 551. nice Helmet with an adjustable peak and drop down sun visor.

(https://cdn.img.cb500x.com/x-lite.png)

with the stock '16 screen on the top mounting holes (stock brackets) I get zero buffetting and no real issues with wind noise, with my main visor up, until I'm reaching speeds where my eyelashes are being blown about (60+mph)....fully closed it's another story. Still no buffetting but pretty intrusive low frequency wind noise, even with decent (non custom) plugs, so I reckon it's a combination of screen and helmet design....

See what it's like with the no screen altogether...see what frequencies are intrusive, then put the screen back on....it may just be the helmet that's the real culprit
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on February 17, 2019, 08:16:13 PM
*Originally Posted by Jonathan [+]
I have the opposite 'issue'....I use an X Lite 551. nice Helmet with an adjustable peak and drop down sun visor.

(https://cdn.img.cb500x.com/x-lite.png)

with the stock '16 screen on the top mounting holes (stock brackets) I get zero buffetting and no real issues with wind noise, with my main visor up, until I'm reaching speeds where my eyelashes are being blown about (60+mph)....fully closed it's another story. Still no buffetting but pretty intrusive low frequency wind noise, even with decent (non custom) plugs, so I reckon it's a combination of screen and helmet design....

See what it's like with the no screen altogether...see what frequencies are intrusive, then put the screen back on....it may just be the helmet that's the real culprit

I did try the no-screen recently. On my last trip out of the city, about 200 miles round trip, I took off the screen entirely. It was a mix of 60-80mph highway (flat open plains between mountain ranges) and also paved mountain passes (heavily lined with trees, which always yields calmer air in my experience). It was a miserable ride, which I am largely chalking up to my Arai XD4. Since switching to my street helmet (no sun visor), everything has significantly improved for me.

I did just find this thread from back in the day: https://www.cb500x.com/index.php/topic,714.0.html

It looks like a lot of guys around my height found the Givi screen with Bruudt bracket to be the magic combination. I think I'll give it a go.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on February 17, 2019, 09:00:06 PM
the PO had already bought a Givi touring screen, so mine came with the bike, together with the original....yet to try it to be honest. Looks tall compared to stock, so much so that I'd be loathe to ride anywhere where I'd need to be standing up on the pegs...
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on February 18, 2019, 12:25:02 AM
*Originally Posted by Jonathan [+]
the PO had already bought a Givi touring screen, so mine came with the bike, together with the original....yet to try it to be honest. Looks tall compared to stock, so much so that I'd be loathe to ride anywhere where I'd need to be standing up on the pegs...

Thanks for the feedback.

I've thought about that. 99% of my riding is on-road these days. I've considered the possible issue that may come once I start riding off-road, but for now I think this'll do. With that in mind, if I were to plan any longer trip that required trail riding or off-road touring, i.e. the Trans-American Trail that I've been dreaming about, I would opt for the "tall" factory screen, which is about 12" tall vs the 19" of the Givi or perhaps something similar, where speeds are generally much lower. I'll cross that bridge when I get there. For now it's on-road touring I'm trying to sort out. 

:821:
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: yojimg on February 21, 2019, 08:35:27 PM
I 'm 5'10", 165lbs, ~32" inseam, and ride a 2015 CB-X.  I've tried multiple things in the quest for quieter riding -- I've got tinnitus in my left ear which gets worse when I ride a lot (and yes, I always wear earplugs!)

1. Short factory screen
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:scontent-lax3-2.cdninstagram.com/vp/f3b21dc09bf9c8eb5e31bace085ead9a/5D20D8FC/t51.2885-15/e35/s320x320/15048199_1777680022483708_2034830590015963136_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.cdninstagram.com)

2. 2016 screen
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:scontent-lax3-2.cdninstagram.com/vp/249ec55ae456a039ee849b9637462be7/5D0835DB/t51.2885-15/e35/s320x320/15538754_942205582583277_5796694472083374080_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.cdninstagram.com)

3. 2016 screen with homemade adjustable Madstadt-type bracket
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:scontent-lax3-2.cdninstagram.com/vp/78f68caec55588d05515bc1965faae40/5D064A4C/t51.2885-15/e35/s320x320/17931887_1452215921517668_750268024254103552_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.cdninstagram.com)

4. 2016 screen with clip-on deflector
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:scontent-lax3-2.cdninstagram.com/vp/3e1b6e13dcf5f7cf105d2046b9b2d82d/5D09BD33/t51.2885-15/e35/s320x320/27575167_596599260678910_9045039660375474176_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.cdninstagram.com)

5. Givi tall touring screen
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:scontent-lax3-2.cdninstagram.com/vp/f215be9f5838fbc314866de5cf902e83/5D049D28/t51.2885-15/e35/s320x320/38817422_2228163680745939_6229964643985522688_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.cdninstagram.com)

6. National Cycle V-stream tall touring screen
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:scontent-lax3-2.cdninstagram.com/vp/25895ef0e37d52f1d86c10efe5b88e91/5CE825B5/t51.2885-15/e35/s320x320/46669323_194734384803638_2105118788543122476_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.cdninstagram.com)

Thoughts on each option:
1. Stock screen is basically useless

2. 2016 screen is much better than stock short screen.  Have to wrestle with the mounting brackets to get it to fit, but not much.  At low setting, can tuck down behind it and find a pocket of
quiet air.  Even at upper setting, still too short for me when sitting upright.  Had to add ~1" spacers when I installed Barkbusters, lost the pocket of quiet air when crouching down.

3. 2016 screen with DIY Madstadt - tried at multiple heights & angles, wasn't really any better/different than just the screen alone.  Abandoned that project.

4. 2016 screen with clip-on deflector - pretty good when sitting fully upright, head/helmet doesn't get bumped around, but still feels like lots of blustering on shoulders from L & R sides.

5. Givi screen - not better than 2016 screen with clip-on deflector - was pretty disappointed actually.

6. National Cycle V-Stream - not better than 2016 screen with clip-on deflector.  Nice and wide, blocked lots of wind from shoulders, but felt TOO big -- like looking through a bubble.  I like the width but not the height.  Felt like air was constantly buffeting the crown of my helmet.  Tempted to cut down the screem, but due to the width, it's still really hard to get it to clear Barkbusters.  Rather than cut it up, I've put it back in the box and it's sitting in my office. (hint, it's for sale - https://www.cb500x.com/index.php/topic,7967.0.html (https://www.cb500x.com/index.php/topic,7967.0.html))

7. 2016 screen with clip-on deflector & cardboard duct-taped across the bottom to close up the gap between windshield & "dash" - no change from #4.

So I've gone back to Option 4 (2016 screen w/deflector).  This is the best option for me right now.  I'm tempted to try to make my own windshield next!



Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on February 21, 2019, 08:56:34 PM
 :460:

Thanks for sharing your findings. Looks like you and I are on the same quest, with just as many hurdles. I'm ready to continue until I find something that works for me with

I have a Givi screen on order and Bruudt brackets. I'm hoping that this will be the last trial, but am prepared to see this until the very end.

When you look at the rally bikes, the towers go from the tank all the way up. There is no opening for air to pass. I would imagine that complete protection like that would be ideal. Anyone know how to work with plastics?  :008:
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: yojimg on February 21, 2019, 09:52:36 PM
*Originally Posted by ThirtyOne [+]
:460:
Anyone know how to work with plastics?  :008:

Lots of good info on Youtube -- see https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=diy+motorcycle+windscreen (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=diy+motorcycle+windscreen)
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on February 21, 2019, 11:56:07 PM
*Originally Posted by yojimg [+]
Lots of good info on Youtube -- see https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=diy+motorcycle+windscreen (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=diy+motorcycle+windscreen)

It takes a while to get things here in Honduras. I'll report back in a few weeks once the screen and brackets have arrived. If not, then maybe it's time to go DIY.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on February 22, 2019, 02:15:19 AM
Looks like three screws on either side holding this in place + 2 on the front. A tower to hold the clocks and then some stacked lights? Maybe even a retrofit of his piece to our bike? I wonder how ugly the final product would be... :008:

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/avMXZLU.jpg)

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/XtdZRmh.jpg)

I grabbed this photo from Jenny's post a while back. The X doesn't look half bad with a the beginnings of a rally front...

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/q9iyQYC.jpg)
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on February 23, 2019, 11:05:00 AM
*Originally Posted by ThirtyOne [+]
:460:

....Anyone know how to work with plastics?  :008:

Funny you should ask! As you may recall, I'm in the middle of making a tank bag and harness, which is turning out to be much more convoluted process than I imagined. Anyway, to create the shapes I needed I've experimented with various materials including craft stuff.

There's a product called Worbla, that is essentially a sheet of thermosetting Polycaprolactone (PCL). In plain form it's about 1mm thick and fairly floppy, like card. when you heat it with a heat gun it becomes very floppy and can be drape moulded, squished and otherwise manipulated to take on the desired shape. It 'cures' to retain the new shape. you can buy various types:- Worbla 'Fine Art' Worbla 'Mesh Art' (with a mesh backing which is more supportive), 'Black' which and 'Clear'.

If you wanted to take a mould of you're screen, the Worbla Mesh Art would work well. You wouldn't need much heat. I envisage cutting a piece larger than necessary to account for any extensions, placing it over the screen (removed) and warming gently until it begins to take on the contours. Allow to cool (a couple of minutes) and you have your basic screen blank. To add curves to the extensions, heat up again and shape accordingly. Trim to suit with a pair of household scissors. It takes a bit of practice to understand how the material behaves but it's very intuitive. The only drawback is the price, but it may be cheaper stateside....we're talking about $30 for a piece big enough to play with.

You could easily fit the prototype over the screen for testing purposes, but it may need additional support on any extensions/deflectors....Worbla has an adhesive component so it sticks to itself without glue, so you could reinforce these areas by doubling up.
Once you've arrived at the ideal shape and size, you could then gelcoat the inside surface, lay up a couple of layers of woven twill fibreglass and create a sturdy, rigid former for an acrylic version...


Speaking of fibreglass, this would be a cheaper option (ie apply mould release wax or PTFE spray to the outside of your screen, gelcoat  then woven roving/twill) This would produce a much more robust prototype/mould but is more time consuming and messy. The result would be a female template mould for your final product....this could be done at home in acrylic, or taken to shop...

It sounds like a lot of faffing and it is, but if like me, you like messing about with stuff, it'd be an interesting, no doubt frustrating, but ultimately enjoyable project.

https://www.worbla.com/?p=9416
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on February 23, 2019, 01:59:15 PM
 :460:

Fantastic post. For me, here in Honduras, it would be bit more difficult as ordering materials would probably double the price. But, as they say, "in for a penny, in for a pound" I'm not giving up that easily.  :008:

Will see how this Givi/Bruudt combo work she and then go from there. Might have to be a summer project if it comes to that. One of my biggest concerns would be getting the rake of the tower correct, as it would take building and then testing...then possibly rebuilding from scratch.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on February 24, 2019, 02:12:27 PM
*Originally Posted by ThirtyOne [+]
:460:

Fantastic post. For me, here in Honduras, it would be bit more difficult as ordering materials would probably double the price. But, as they say, "in for a penny, in for a pound" I'm not giving up that easily.  :008:

Will see how this Givi/Bruudt combo work she and then go from there. Might have to be a summer project if it comes to that. One of my biggest concerns would be getting the rake of the tower correct, as it would take building and then testing...then possibly rebuilding from scratch.

you'd be able to design adjustability into the attachment system assuming it'll be fixed to the bike in a similar way.

If it came down to it and you decided to really go to town, then I'd be looking at a a pair of rake/height  adjusters on  indexed turnwheels. you're only talking about moving the screen in two planes (up/down, (tilt forward/tilt back) so it shouldn't be too difficult. In my experience of messing around with cars, bikes and camper vans, and anything else for that matter, the problem stems not from the complexity of the design or the availability of suitable parts/mechanisms, but starting out from the wrong place....ie looking at what's there already and thinking along very similar lines. True, someone else has considered and designed a product, bracket, gizmo, whatever, to fulfill a particular purpose but if it doesn't actually do what you want it to do (an adjustable screen being a prime example) why would something very similar to the original be an appropriate place from which to start? The other issue is a mindset thing...it gets me all the time! You've seen something a thousand times and looked at how it was put together, so you tend to replicate it. It's a bit like the old Henry Ford maxim "You can have any colour of car, as long as it's black"...that's one of the reasons I love looking at custom bikes, homebrew designs etc. even if it's not to my taste...it's the fact that they've thought outside the box, whether that's the materials used in construction or re-purposing something designed for an entirely different application. A great place to start for bracket mechanisms is kitchen cupboards...at a pinch you could even think about adapting ram ball mounts...half the work's already done and these are super adjustable in tiny increments...ideal for a screen attachment set up.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on February 24, 2019, 02:28:52 PM
(https://cdn.img.cb500x.com/gopro-mount-adapter-ap17mmgp-1_540x540.jpg)

there's you're off the shelf up/down/tilt mechanism....screen attaches to the bracket side (tilt), ball attaches to the mounting frame (up/down) via lockable thumb-turn...if you need even more adjustability (in/out for increasing/decreasing  air gap when the screen angle and height are positioned where you like it) then you could mount the ball end clamp on slotted fixings...

now it's just a simple case of fabricating it :001:

We expect to see the finished item in a week or two :016: :016:

we need to harness the talents of our resident 3D printer....
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on February 24, 2019, 02:43:51 PM
Great ideas. I see your point about reinventing the wheel.

I worked with custom kitchen cabinetry for a decade, and I know what you're talking about when you mention the hinges. I've seen all sorts of amazing designs.

My ride yesterday yielded poor results with the Madstad. I tried a number of configurations and I'm still not happy. The Givi screen is next and if that doesn't work I'll be thinking more DIY.

  :821:
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on February 24, 2019, 10:17:48 PM
*Originally Posted by ThirtyOne [+]
Great ideas. I see your point about reinventing the wheel.

I worked with custom kitchen cabinetry for a decade, and I know what you're talking about when you mention the hinges. I've seen all sorts of amazing designs.

My ride yesterday yielded poor results with the Madstad. I tried a number of configurations and I'm still not happy. The Givi screen is next and if that doesn't work I'll be thinking more DIY.

  :821:

Fingers crossed! It can drag you down after a while, especially when you've invested a lot of time and money.
It's like one of those automated telephone lines....they put you on hold....you listen to the muzak or blurb for a minute...you get pissed off...but you'll give it another minute....then another...and another. after five minutes you hit that critical point....do I hang up or do I keep holding seeing as I've already wasted five minutes of my life? what if I hang up and they were just about to answer? :008:
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Oldhorse on February 25, 2019, 01:50:01 AM
Removed the 20" Madstad screen and bracket today. Slight bending of the factory brackets and slight enlarging the holes in the screen let's them mount fine. Next is to get longer hardware and spacers for 3 /4" air gap under the screen. Will find the best angle for the screen with spacers and not use the Madstad bracket any more. I'll need more contour grinding to clear the handguards.
Nope, don't care if I ruin the screen at this point. I'll make a new screen if needed.
I guess the screen will need a spoiler at top as it seems too low.
I mounted screen in the lower position as it should channel the wind under the Madstad deflectors better.
Testing after spring thaw...hurry and wait!
I'm sure this set up will be more solidly mounted and block wind better but will it buffet!?

Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on February 25, 2019, 02:11:25 AM
On my ride yesterday I was feeling around the tank and noticed a massive amount of air being kicked up from those side deflectors. I removed them on my trip home and felt less air hitting my upper shoulders but more air coming up at my belly. Will experiment with and without them once my Givi screen arrives.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on February 26, 2019, 06:47:46 PM
*Originally Posted by ThirtyOne [+]
On my ride yesterday I was feeling around the tank and noticed a massive amount of air being kicked up from those side deflectors. I removed them on my trip home and felt less air hitting my upper shoulders but more air coming up at my belly. Will experiment with and without them once my Givi screen arrives.

Sent a speculative email to my local university. They have a dedicated faculty for motorsport engineering, aerodynamics and product design...quite well placed to develop a screen that actually works!

Who knows, they may just bite...

Hi.
Who would I need to speak to regarding wind tunnel analysis and modelling at the NCME?
More specifically, Iím looking for help to develop a windshield design for a motorcycle, with a view to producing in small batches. The bike in question (Honda CB 500 X) is a very popular model with consistently strong sales worldwide since its first introduction in 2013. There have been several upgrades and re-styles since then, but the basic design has remained largely unchanged. Complaints from owners regarding the stock windshield are very common and while after-market screens are available, theyíre very much hit and miss in terms of performance, as they tend to be designed from a cosmetic rather than functional  standpoint.

I wondered whether the faculty at NCME may consider the above as a potential project for product design, analysis and evaluation?

Please forward this email to whom it may concern.

Thanks in advance,
Jonathan  (Bolton)


https://www.bolton.ac.uk/places/schools-faculties/ncme/
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: SilverCycle on February 26, 2019, 08:23:56 PM
On aesthetic grounds it might be nicer to use soft toys, rather than towels. Also gives you someone to chat to during all the test runs.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on February 26, 2019, 09:21:36 PM
*Originally Posted by SilverCycle [+]
On aesthetic grounds it might be nicer to use soft toys, rather than towels. Also gives you someone to chat to during all the test runs.

 :008: probably get more moral support from Sooty than the Girlfriend....
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on February 26, 2019, 09:26:26 PM
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgflip.com/2upf1x.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/2upf1x)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on February 26, 2019, 11:35:46 PM
*Originally Posted by SilverCycle [+]
On aesthetic grounds it might be nicer to use soft toys, rather than towels. Also gives you someone to chat to during all the test runs.

Now you tell me.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: CaptCapsize on March 09, 2019, 04:44:32 AM
Following this with interest.  I am 6'1" and just put a seat concepts Tall Rally seat.  It raises me up 1.75 inches.  I put a 2016 windshield on my 2015 X.  It is better than the 2015 stock, but not good enough. 

I also have a 650 VStrom.  The turbulence from the VStom stock screen was much worse than the one on the CBX.

I installed the Givi Air Flow on the VStrom.  It is the type with two layers with adjustable front.  It moved the air stream to about 3 inches above my helmet.  The air coming off the top has a smooth transition and does not have turbulence.  It changed the ride where the still air pocket is good up to about 85 mph.  The Givi made for the CBX does not have the two layer design, so I doubt it would work as well.  I wish Givi had the same design for the CBX.

I intend to make adapter brackets and put the VStrom's Givi windscreen on the CBX to see if would work as well.  I will report back if I can get it mounted.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 10, 2019, 12:27:16 AM
Quick update. I'm on my way out the door, but thought I'd share while the memory is fresh.

Givi and Bruudt bracket arrived this week. Installed the Givi screen by itself in the tall position. It was ok, but still felt a fair amount of buffeting with my helmet open. Tried the Arai XD4 and turbulence city. I'm done with ADV helmets that have peaks.

Installed the Bruudt bracket, you definitely need 3 hands to get the screen on easily, and found that I couldn't get a good bubble with the helmet open at 55-65mph. Closed helmet it was ok, but probably got better results with the Madstad with the helmet closed.

Went out and down the highway for a while adjusting the Givi on the Madstad brackets a few cm here and there to see if there was an optimal position. Nothing yet.

One thing I did find was that if I leaned into the screen, and got my face close to the top, it would quiet down a lot. I assume it's kicking air straight over my helmet. When I go back to my normal comfortable seating position the turbulence starts right back up. Maybe I need to get one of those attachment extenders?

Hand over the gap between the bike and the screen there is no rush of air like on the Madstad. The Givi, even with the Bruudt bracket (which creates about 3 fingers of space) creates a calm area around the chest and lower helmet area. Madstad had steady air going at my neck. So an improvement there.

Will try the stubby OEM screen on the Bruudt bracket just for kicks tomorrow. Then maybe take the Bruudt brackets off and try the Givi in the low position. Disappointed that the Givi/Bruudt combo didn't work out that well, as others had reported that it solved their problems.

A bit more testing tomorrow and we'll see if there's anything to be done with this Givi screen.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 11, 2019, 12:19:53 AM
2nd Givi Update

Continued to ride around with the Givi and still haven't found it the magic ticket for me. One thing to note is that the plastic guards on the Barkbusters hit the screen in the highest position on the Bruudt bracket. I moved my ROX and my bars to see if I could find a cure, but it's a close fit. I remember Jenny doing some drilling on the backbone of her guards to make them work better with windscreens. I'll have to dig into that thread.

I figured that I would give the stubby OEM screen a go before removing the Bruudt bracket to try the Givi in the low position. I only ran it in the high position before installing the Bruudt brackets.

The OEM stubby screen on the Bruudt Bracket in the high position solved the open helmet turbulence issue. It's essentially like riding a naked bike ( I rode mostly naked bikes for the last decade, so this is a familiar comfort zone for me) Helmet open is just lots (and lots and lots) of smooth air. Zero turbulence, but, more noise. I could chalk that up to the poor quality helmet I'm using now. I got it as a freebie when I bought my Benelli a few years ago, and it's definitely a cheapo helmet. I've always used Arai helmets while living back in the states. I guess it's time to look into a new helmet.

Back to the stubby screen on the Bruudt bracket. I only got it up to about 55mph, but with the hot/dry season coming in now in Honduras, I don't mind the big flow of air. I can ride with my helmet open, no turbulence, no headache. That makes me happy for now. I also put the Madstad side deflectors back on just for fun. Honestly can't feel any difference with or without them.

The next trial will be the Givi on the low setting, no Bruudt brackets. I don't think I'll get to that until next weekend. If that doesn't work then this is what I'm thinking:

A) This bike is going to have turbulence for me at highway speeds no matter what. It's the design. It doesn't have a big front fairing like the Super Tenere or Africa Twin. That big plastic tower protects. We simply don't have it.

B) I took a closer look at the shape of the Givi. It's nearly flat. The Madstad is also flat. There's practically no curve. I've been looking at screens that have more of a lip (or curve) at towards the top. The Honda 13-15 tall screen seems to have a bit more of a curve from what I can tell from the pictures. Then I know that MRA makes a screen with that adjustable foil at the top. I had one on my vStrom and I could tune it to move air differently while on back roads and on the highway with one hand. Niftly little contraption. I just came across Laminar, who have created this little graphic. So maybe I need a windshield that has a curve to it or contact Laminar sells an accessory lip to add to an existing screen. Could be another option.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:www.laminarlip.com/flo2.gif)

https://www.laminarlip.com/whyneed.php


C) Consider some kind of extender (like the laminar above) that clips on. It seems like a bit of a gimmick, but maybe it's what I need.
 
Will try the Givi sans Bruudt next weekend. If that doesn't work, I'll put the stubby and Bruudt back on and live with it for a while.

Some images below to show the setup for those of you that are curious to see it. On a side note, I put the dB killer in my Two Brothers exhaust. Wow, it's so much nicer now. Still louder than stock, but not obnoxious.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/R6j1tSF.jpg)

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/Ak4oUaP.jpg)

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/8UPOrzT.jpg)

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/02yIibn.jpg)

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/vl5577N.jpg)

Current state: Will keep it like this for the week and play more next weekend. Stay tuned.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/enIbvuY.jpg)
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on March 13, 2019, 06:02:22 PM
stock early screen and madstad brackets to tune the angle? in for a penny....
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 13, 2019, 08:11:53 PM
*Originally Posted by Jonathan [+]
stock early screen and madstad brackets to tune the angle? in for a penny....

Not a bad idea. I'm finding at 60mph+ the stock stubby with the Bruudt bracket is not great. A lot of headwind with the helmet open/closed. Some significant neck strain.

I can give the Madstad another go, but I think it's just too far away from the perch. Closing the gap, as the Bruudt did, helped with the airflow at the base of the screen, behind it.

Another monkey wrench in the plans. Juan Browne just uploaded this video and he mentions that the OEM tall screen with the Vario mount on top was exactly what he needed for kicking air up over himself. I have been interested in the tall OEM screen next due to its curved shape. It pains me to think about spending more money on screens, even moreso because the OEM tall screen is expensive for what it is...I think the Powerbronze screen is a copy of it. Anyone know?

Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on March 13, 2019, 08:24:17 PM
best off dropping them an email before shelling out on another screen. They may have some comparison pics...

remember  that it's a very personal, subjective thing....one man's 'perfect' is another man's dreadful :087:

every credit for your perseverance :169:

my limited experience with an add on spoiler on another bike (MRA X screen/transalp) wasn't great...created a lot of noise but not much else; every application's different. some owners swore by it
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 13, 2019, 11:14:01 PM
*Originally Posted by Jonathan [+]
best off dropping them an email before shelling out on another screen. They may have some comparison pics...

remember  that it's a very personal, subjective thing....one man's 'perfect' is another man's dreadful :087:

every credit for your perseverance :169:

my limited experience with an add on spoiler on another bike (MRA X screen/transalp) wasn't great...created a lot of noise but not much else; every application's different. some owners swore by it

Certainly. 6'1" guys here said the Bruudt/ Givi combo was their magic recipe. It didn't work for me. Every person is different.

I am going to play around some more with the screens I have and then, if it comes to it, try something else. The 19 screen is also reshaped. That could be yet another option. The OEM screens(besides the tall 13-15 screen) are relatively cheap.

I haven't given up on the Givi yet.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 14, 2019, 01:35:31 AM
Had a little extra time this evening and decided to remove the Bruudt brackets and try the Givi in the low position. There was a fair amount of traffic so I didn't get the bike above 55mph. Closed helmet was comfortable, very little buffeting and less noise. Open helmet put windblast right around my eyeline.

I bent down a little at speed to see if there would be any difference if the screen was in the high position. I had previously mounted it there when I got it, and it was ok. Not amazing, but not terrible. bending down a little cleared up some of the open helmet turbulence on the face. Not completely, but reduced it maybe by half. I'll mount it up to the high position again and do some further testing.

Photos just because.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/Y6waI7A.jpg)

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/ajFotV0.jpg)
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 14, 2019, 01:42:57 AM
On a side note, I was going through the windshield thread and found these two images comparing the Givi to the OEM Tall. Interesting. The Givi is significantly taller. I had mentioned a few posts earlier that the OEM Tall was a consideration, but unless there is some kind of magic about taller riders using shorter screens, it looks like it would be a step backwards.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt38/tcgetsbored/20140213_194853_zpsvingjayq.jpg)

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt38/tcgetsbored/20140213_194919_zps6krq8gbv.jpg)
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 17, 2019, 06:16:04 PM
A bit more playing around with the Givi windscreen this weekend.

I put the Givi in the high position and added 13mm spacers to the bottom holes to create more rake. I found the Madstad worked best for me with it tilted back towards me quite a bit.

Sure enough, the 13mm spacer helped me some. I was able to ride with the helmet open up to about 50mph without buffeting. Above that, I got a good amount of turbulence.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/jI6mtSr.jpg)

I thought about raising the screen up to see if I can get the airflow up and over my helmet. I reinstalled the Bruudt brackets with the 13mm spacers in the bottom holes. This created a massive gap at the base, almost as wide as the Madstad, which didn't work for me. In testing it didn't work.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/UVWipKp.jpg)

I was also forced to take off my Barkbusters as they would hit the Givi screen.

Now I'm considering putting the Givi directly back on the Bruudt brackets and running through some different heights again. Maybe I missed something the last round when they were installed together.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on March 17, 2019, 07:40:59 PM
*Originally Posted by ThirtyOne [+]
A bit more playing around with the Givi windscreen this weekend.

I put the Givi in the high position and added 13mm spacers to the bottom holes to create more rake. I found the Madstad worked best for me with it tilted back towards me quite a bit.

Sure enough, the 13mm spacer helped me some. I was able to ride with the helmet open up to about 50mph without buffeting. Above that, I got a good amount of turbulence.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/jI6mtSr.jpg)

I thought about raising the screen up to see if I can get the airflow up and over my helmet. I reinstalled the Bruudt brackets with the 13mm spacers in the bottom holes. This created a massive gap at the base, almost as wide as the Madstad, which didn't work for me. In testing it didn't work.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/UVWipKp.jpg)

I was also forced to take off my Barkbusters as they would hit the Givi screen.

Now I'm considering putting the Givi directly back on the Bruudt brackets and running through some different heights again. Maybe I missed something the last round when they were installed together.

it's really difficult to do any sort of back-to-back comparison test when the differences are minor and the variables are so dynamic. I've not heard anything back from the college I emailed about tunnel testing and modelling...shame, as it's right up their street (motorsport design technology) and would be an ideal project for a pre-grad.

Is the aforementioned turbulence felt or heard? when I was experimenting with an add-on MRA spoiler on my transalp, despite the improved airflow it created a lot of low frequency wind noise which was intrusive, so the turbulence was just shifted rather than negated
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 17, 2019, 07:53:51 PM
It's definitely a ton of trial and error. Shame about the school you've reached out to. I agree that it would be great to hear about the science of this testing. Maybe there's something I'm missing.

I'm still scratching my head how some 6'1"-6'2" riders in the windshield thread were able to get near perfect results with the Bruudt and Givi.

I've also begun to look at the add-on deflectors. The MRA x-creen seems to have some very good reviews. I had the MRA vario on my VStrom and the top adjustable deflector was definitely helpful on that short screen. In the end I got the Madstad system for that bike, which worked out.

The testing continues.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 17, 2019, 07:59:04 PM
*Originally Posted by Jonathan [+]
it's really difficult to do any sort of back-to-back comparison test when the differences are minor and the variables are so dynamic. I've not heard anything back from the college I emailed about tunnel testing and modelling...shame, as it's right up their street (motorsport design technology) and would be an ideal project for a pre-grad.

Is the aforementioned turbulence felt or heard? when I was experimenting with an add-on MRA spoiler on my transalp, despite the improved airflow it created a lot of low frequency wind noise which was intrusive, so the turbulence was just shifted rather than negated

Just saw your edit. Looks like you've also given the MRA deflector a go. It's turbulence that I feel, which causes helmet shake and can lead to blurred vision above 65mph. Basically I cannot safely ride above 65mph with my helmet open.

Noise is something I'm willing to work out with earplugs as long as the turbulence / buffeting with an open helmet can be dialed out.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on March 18, 2019, 06:14:16 PM
*Originally Posted by ThirtyOne [+]
Just saw your edit. Looks like you've also given the MRA deflector a go. It's turbulence that I feel, which causes helmet shake and can lead to blurred vision above 65mph. Basically I cannot safely ride above 65mph with my helmet open.

Noise is something I'm willing to work out with earplugs as long as the turbulence / buffeting with an open helmet can be dialed out.


I can see why you're so concerned if it's that bad you're getting blurred vision... :156:

I know from previous experience with different helmets that much of the noise generated emanates from wind coming up under the chin bar, but buffeting is definitely airflow related (screen height/pitch).

working on that premise, the steeper the screen angle, the greater the gap, the more wind is directed at chin bar height = more wind noise, but the trade-off is usually less buffeting.

In the absence of a workable solution I'd be tempted to bin the screen all together and get a Schuberth or similar...may seem like admitting defeat, but a problem like this can drive you to distraction and detract from your riding enjoyment

Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 18, 2019, 09:29:56 PM
*Originally Posted by Jonathan [+]

I can see why you're so concerned if it's that bad you're getting blurred vision... :156:

I know from previous experience with different helmets that much of the noise generated emanates from wind coming up under the chin bar, but buffeting is definitely airflow related (screen height/pitch).

working on that premise, the steeper the screen angle, the greater the gap, the more wind is directed at chin bar height = more wind noise, but the trade-off is usually less buffeting.

In the absence of a workable solution I'd be tempted to bin the screen all together and get a Schuberth or similar...may seem like admitting defeat, but a problem like this can drive you to distraction and detract from your riding enjoyment

There are quite a few variables for sure. I've found a few different things that work just fine with the helmet closed, but the real goal is open helmet riding. Because of where I am in the world, going to find a good helmet isn't possible. I'll have to wait until I'm back in the USA in June to get a new helmet, which I'm due for anyway.

I've gone through the 90 page windshield thread from beginning to end and quite a few guys who are my height have found good results with the Givi/Bruudt combo. I'm still hoping that I missed something with that setup. Going to re-install today and spend some time going up and down the highway. The MRA spoiler is next on the list. From there...well...who knows. With all I have into this bike and the long term goal for it, I'm not going to stop quite yet. The 500X is my ideal travel bike by nearly all standards except for the windshield issue.

There has to be some solution!  :157:

Will keep this thread updated with my progress.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ewryly on March 18, 2019, 10:22:55 PM
How far do you open your helmet shield when you ride with it open?
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 19, 2019, 02:27:25 AM
*Originally Posted by ewryly [+]
How far do you open your helmet shield when you ride with it open?

All the way usually, but tonight I tried half and fully.

I did a few more test runs with the Givi/Bruudt combo and also tried the helmet halfway open and fully. Adjusted the screen halfway up the bracket, fully low and fully high and a few in between. Still not happy with the results.

Helmet closed isn't bad. The turbulence is coming from the airflow at the top of the screen. There's not much hitting my upper body at all or under the helmet around my neck.

Still thinking that it's due to he shape of the screen. It doesn't have any lip at top to send air up and over.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ewryly on March 19, 2019, 05:46:16 PM
I usually just crack my helmet shield to the first increment, less than an inch open.  When I am moving, even on hot days, that seems fine, though I will open it all the way if it is hot and I am in traffic. 
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on March 19, 2019, 08:10:23 PM
*Originally Posted by ThirtyOne [+]
...........There's not much hitting my upper body at all or under the helmet around my neck............

maybe that's where you need to experiment? Rather than trying to get a rider-sized protective bubble behind the screen, try directing the air flow lower, towards your torso/chest....you should get cleaner air at helmet height, and any additional wind noise is easier to remedy.

when you look at truly cossetted touring bikes ('glides, goldwings etc.) they achieve that level of protection with a huge frontal area...I doubt this would be feasible with an X, as the screen size would warrant bigger bracketry and much more support
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 19, 2019, 10:59:52 PM
Im going to try a few more things before I throw in the towel. I want to get the air up over me as I will be doing some massive touring in the next few years and having direct wind at my helmet makes for plenty of neck strain. I otherwise I would simply go screenless ( which I did for the past few days).
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: oldtexan on March 20, 2019, 02:22:18 AM
This is just a "for what its worth".  My Madstad screen is working well for me and here is how it is set up:

I've got  a 20" Madstad screen and winglets installed on a 2018 CB500x.  The bike is basically completely stock.  I have the screen extended as far as possible upward.  The tilt of the screen is three notches from the rear of the tilt slot.  The tilt of the screen - when the bike is on a Honda center stand - is exactly 60 degrees, so probably a couple of degrees less than that when the bike's rear wheel is on the ground.

 At 70 MPH I get a lot of air movement going over the top of my helmet, and almost no air movement on my torso or head below that, even at eye level.  I am 5' 11" tall and have an inseam of about 32 inches.  I do not get buffeting (which I think of as being an un-even flow of air) at all, unless passing or being passed or if there is a strong wind velocity from the side.

As I said, FWIW.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 20, 2019, 03:13:17 AM
*Originally Posted by oldtexan [+]
This is just a "for what its worth".  My Madstad screen is working well for me and here is how it is set up:

I've got  a 20" Madstad screen and winglets installed on a 2018 CB500x.  The bike is basically completely stock.  I have the screen extended as far as possible upward.  The tilt of the screen is three notches from the rear of the tilt slot.  The tilt of the screen - when the bike is on a Honda center stand - is exactly 60 degrees, so probably a couple of degrees less than that when the bike's rear wheel is on the ground.

 At 70 MPH I get a lot of air movement going over the top of my helmet, and almost no air movement on my torso or head below that, even at eye level.  I am 5' 11" tall and have an inseam of about 32 inches.  I do not get buffeting (which I think of as being an un-even flow of air) at all, unless passing or being passed or if there is a strong wind velocity from the side.

As I said, FWIW.

Glad to hear that you've found a solution! I usually ran 2nd from full tilt or 3rd notch from full tilt, full extended to highest position. Those yielded the best results with the helmet closed. Helmet open didn't work for me at all.

I have decided to take a few more steps before stopping for a lengthy re-evaluation. I ordered a MRA X-creen touring size with the clip-on mount. I will run through the Givi, OEM stubby, (both with and without Bruudt brackets) and Madstad with the x-creen attached. I'm hoping that between those three screens, and + the variable with the Bruudt brackets that something will work out.

If all else fails, I'll probably ride screenless for a while or maybe look at the +16 screen gain. My buddy let me ride his 2018 and that gave me average results open and closed helmet. Maybe I'll take his bike out with my x-creen attached and see if that's what I need.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 23, 2019, 03:35:37 PM
A small update on the progress here.

I've been looking into other areas not yet explored for my buffeting. Now I'm focusing on my helmet. The one I'm using now is a no-hame branded helmet that came with my last bike. Yes, I should know better. I buy premium helmets like Arai  in the USA.

My lid is very low quality and the face shield & the pivot mounts are all very loose. The whole shield and mount system rock back and forth like a teenager at a Dave Matthews concert. A few days ago I got the bike up to 55mph and put both hands on the pivot points of the face shield to stabilize it. Much less buffeting. I'm going to tape up the helmet and do some testing this weekend.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on March 23, 2019, 10:41:26 PM
*Originally Posted by ThirtyOne [+]
A small update on the progress here.

I've been looking into other areas not yet explored for my buffeting. Now I'm focusing on my helmet. The one I'm using now is a no-hame branded helmet that came with my last bike. Yes, I should know better. I buy premium helmets like Arai  in the USA.

My lid is very low quality and the face shield & the pivot mounts are all very loose. The whole shield and mount system rock back and forth like a teenager at a Dave Matthews concert. A few days ago I got the bike up to 55mph and put both hands on the pivot points of the face shield to stabilize it. Much less buffeting. I'm going to tape up the helmet and do some testing this weekend.

bet you'll be kicking yourself if it turns out all you needed was gaffer tape.... :138:

No matter, if it solves your problem...a loose visor would certainly account for blurred vision :087:
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 24, 2019, 05:58:38 AM
*Originally Posted by Jonathan [+]
bet you'll be kicking yourself if it turns out all you needed was gaffer tape.... :138:

No matter, if it solves your problem...a loose visor would certainly account for blurred vision :087:

I'll simply be glad to know that I can get my wind protection issue resolved. I'm also due for a new helmet, so hopefully this'll kill two birds with one stone.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ewryly on March 24, 2019, 01:21:10 PM
*Originally Posted by ThirtyOne [+]
I'll simply be glad to know that I can get my wind protection issue resolved. I'm also due for a new helmet, so hopefully this'll kill two birds with one stone.

I think the solution is definitely a combination of things.  I'm just 5'9", so I can get away with a lower screen, but I think my Shoei RF 1200 helmet makes a big differences.  But if I lived where it is hot all the time, I would look for better ventilation and easily removable pads.  The problem is that helmets can be expensive!
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: motorboy on March 24, 2019, 01:49:54 PM
*Originally Posted by ThirtyOne [+]
I'll simply be glad to know that I can get my wind protection issue resolved. I'm also due for a new helmet, so hopefully this'll kill two birds with one stone.
You can't let the bastard win you must fight back  the bike is messing with you-here's what I have done is take a large hammer place it on the work bench so the bike can see it and tell the bike what is about to happen to it if it does not do do the right thing - may work if not off with it's head---(windshield brackets) :745:
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on March 24, 2019, 04:17:05 PM
*Originally Posted by motorboy [+]
You can't let the bastard win you must fight back  the bike is messing with you-here's what I have done is take a large hammer place it on the work bench so the bike can see it and tell the bike what is about to happen to it if it does not do do the right thing - may work if not off with it's head---(windshield brackets) :745:

trouble is with something like this, you're always thinking "maybe if it was just an inch taller/wider/larger, or on a slightly different angle...etc" :084:

it's a bit like your wedding tackle in this regard... :745:

 
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 30, 2019, 03:05:57 PM
MRA X-creen arrived yesterday to Honduras. Initial impressions just removing it from the box are that this thing is substantial. I got the touring size. Will assemble it and test it over the weekend. Has this saga finally come to an end? We shall see...
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 31, 2019, 12:43:05 AM
Final update for now.

Began testing the MRA x-creen touring size on my Givi screen tonight along with the Bruudt brackets. The x-creen adds quite a bit of height to my already tall screen and, not surprisingly, once the x-creen arms are brought up to about 9 o'clock, the screen can be adjusted to dial out buffeting at highways speeds. The only issue for me is that it takes it right at my eye line or I'm looking through the windscreen. It may not be that bad during the day, but over time after scratches and normal wear, I suspect it'll be a bit of a hazard at night time with the headlights of oncoming traffic.

I took the Bruudt brackets off and mounted the Givi screen in the high position. From there, it's very similar. I was able to achieve ok results with the helmet open at 55-60mph. If I wanted a complete bubble, I could raise it up to my eye line and dial out buffeting almost completely. I did notice that the space at the base added by the Bruudt brackets allowed for the nicest bubble with my helmet open.

Ideally, I'd like to have the windscreen out of my line of sight and still get the benefits of the full height screen.

Next I put the Givi windscreen in the lowest position and then played around with the x-creen. I'm now able to get pretty good results with the helmet open at 55mph and at 60-65mph it smooths out considerably. Previously, I was getting turbulence to the point where my vision was blurred at 55mph+. I attribute some of the buffeting to the flimsy nature of the cheap helmet I'm using, and expect that a better helmet will further dial out the unwanted turbulence.

At this point I'm going to call it a day. It's ok for my needs for now. I can adjust the x-creen in a way that gives me 100% clean air as if I'm riding a naked bike. This can be my default position around the city, as most of my riding is around 25-40mph. The helmet doesn't pick up any buffeting and in these hotter months, it's nice to get fresh air coming across my face.

I can also adjust it up for highway runs. It takes less than 10 seconds to flip it up into position. I'd like to take it out of the city to get some better highway testing, but time is limited for me these days.

In my "highway setting" I am only raising the x-creen to about 9 o'clock, which brings it right below my eye line. There is still a LOT of height adjustment for this x-creen. It makes me wonder how a shorter screen would fare with this x-creen, say a +16 screen or a 13-15 Honda tall. Another day, another chapter, but, thankfully, not anytime soon.

That's it for me and my screen quest for now. I hope that some of you found this useful. 
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ewryly on March 31, 2019, 02:05:39 AM
A lot of effort,  but it sounds like it was productive.  The adjustability of the x-creen makes it a nice solution.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 31, 2019, 02:21:33 AM
*Originally Posted by ewryly [+]
A lot of effort,  but it sounds like it was productive.  The adjustability of the x-creen makes it a nice solution.

It's been a long road. I'm glad that I was able to finally mostly put this to bed. If I was going to make a recommendation for anyone at this point it would be to try the x-creen on any of the middle height screens (not the 13-15 stubby) and then work your way up to a taller screen if necessary from there. I jumped straight to Madstad because it worked so well on my vstrom.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Oldhorse on March 31, 2019, 03:19:43 AM
Glad you found a solution ThirtyOne.
I'm probably in the same boat.
How about a couple photos of the MRA set up angles and height?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 31, 2019, 04:54:43 PM
*Originally Posted by Oldhorse [+]
Glad you found a solution ThirtyOne.
I'm probably in the same boat.
How about a couple photos of the MRA set up angles and height?
Thanks.

I can take a few more later if you'd like. This is what the screen looks like attached.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/q9mJ6Sv.jpg)

And this is how I dial out any wind coming off the top of the screen. It gives me straight fresh air on the helmet as if I was running screenless. Looks a bit odd, but it works so I'm happy.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/c1C6Xns.jpg)

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/LAAIyPk.jpg)
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Oldhorse on March 31, 2019, 05:05:41 PM
Thanks. Doing it again, would you get the smaller version or the drill and boot on version? Hope you give long a term update.
I've modded mine but still have lots of ice on the roads so tests will wait.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on March 31, 2019, 06:19:26 PM
*Originally Posted by Oldhorse [+]
Thanks. Doing it again, would you get the smaller version or the drill and boot on version? Hope you give long a term update.
I've modded mine but still have lots of ice on the roads so tests will wait.

Good question. I'm happy with the "tour" size of the X-creen. It's one of those things where you really don't know until you try it. One side your brain might say "bigger is better" and the other side of your brain might think that it's only a small redirecting of air that you need. Looking at the size of the "tour" size, it's hard to imagine that the sport would make a massive difference, but, like I said, you really never know.

I was riding down the highway yesterday and was carefully adjusting the tilt and height at about 50mph with one hand. I could feel the difference every few clicks of adjustment. It was very interesting to see how the screen reacted with airflow. Maybe the smaller version would have been ok with my taller Givi screen, I really don't know.

The clip on kit also comes with the permanent mounting hardware, so I can eventually drill the holes and mount it that way if I want.

I will report back with a long term update after some time. I might even mount it to my friend's 2018 bike to see how it reacts with that windshield. 
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on April 02, 2019, 01:30:59 AM
*Originally Posted by Oldhorse [+]
Glad you found a solution ThirtyOne.
I'm probably in the same boat.
How about a couple photos of the MRA set up angles and height?
Thanks.

Played around with a little more today. Can get a nice cruise at 45-55mph and it's very quiet behind the screen, to the point where I can hear distinct engine noise. Never was able to hear this before. It's tall to get this kind of blockage, but if I were in colder climates, it would be fantastic to have that much protection.

This would be my "touring" height. As you can see, the arms of the MRA are about 9 o'clock. The arms are about 3" long, which, in theory, means that I could put this on a shorter screen and get just about the same height if I chose to. In theory...

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/4E2qPsB.jpg)
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: motorboy on April 02, 2019, 03:00:29 PM
*Originally Posted by ThirtyOne [+]
Played around with a little more today. Can get a nice cruise at 45-55mph and it's very quiet behind the screen, to the point where I can hear distinct engine noise. Never was able to hear this before. It's tall to get this kind of blockage, but if I were in colder climates, it would be fantastic to have that much protection.

This would be my "touring" height. As you can see, the arms of the MRA are about 9 o'clock. The arms are about 3" long, which, in theory, means that I could put this on a shorter screen and get just about the same height if I chose to. In theory...

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/4E2qPsB.jpg)
now that the windshield seems to be fixed--for now--the engine noises are going to get you--next ride count how many times you say-what was that :745:
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on April 02, 2019, 03:03:42 PM
*Originally Posted by motorboy [+]
now that the windshield seems to be fixed--for now--the engine noises are going to get you--next ride count how many times you say-what was that :745:


 :008: :008: My favorite trick for that in my car is to turn the radio up louder!
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: vickriz on April 05, 2019, 09:23:39 PM
Picking up from my New Member thread on this topic (https://www.cb500x.com/index.php/topic,8306.10.html):

I moved the stock windshield to the lower setting and popped a couple washers in the lower bolts and it has made a vast improvement around town. I will go home via the highway, but it's a quite windy day so results may be inconclusive.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on April 05, 2019, 09:40:42 PM
*Originally Posted by vickriz [+]
Picking up from my New Member thread on this topic (https://www.cb500x.com/index.php/topic,8306.10.html):

I moved the stock windshield to the lower setting and popped a couple washers in the lower bolts and it has made a vast improvement around town. I will go home via the highway, but it's a quite windy day so results may be inconclusive.

I too noticed a difference when you open the bottom up a little. With my Givi/X-creen/Bruudt bracket (effectively adding a spacer at the base) that combination worked best for me. The problem with the Bruudt brackets are that you have to mount them in the high position on the bike. You cannot put them in the low one, I found that combo too high with the Givi and X-creen overall.

I was thinking about that bottom spacer the other day. How thick were the washers that you added at the base?
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: vickriz on April 05, 2019, 11:01:31 PM
*Originally Posted by ThirtyOne [+]
I was thinking about that bottom spacer the other day. How thick were the washers that you added at the base?

IIRC, they were 1/4" so doubled means 1/2". I can check when I get home, if you like.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on April 06, 2019, 01:30:10 AM
Sure. If you want to add pics I wouldn't mind seeing your setup either.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: motorboy on April 06, 2019, 04:39:59 AM
Hey guys after we stop talking about windshields lets talk about oil :745:
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: vickriz on April 08, 2019, 07:19:32 PM
*Originally Posted by ThirtyOne [+]
Sure. If you want to add pics I wouldn't mind seeing your setup either.

Couldn't get any angles for a pic that would show the set up clearly.

I did move it up to the higher setting but in test rides, I found it worse than when I had it in the lower setting. Still kinda windy around here, so my results are still inconclusive. More testing required.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on April 21, 2019, 11:28:53 PM
Short Update

Been riding with the Givi screen in the low setting with the x-creen at about 90 degrees of its 180 degree sweep. It's pretty good as is. I've been able to ride with the helmet halfway open up to about 65mph without too much of a disturbance.

Noticed a fair amount of wind on my chest and decided to give some spacers a try. I remember they helped during one test combination. Was going through my closet and found these 4 plastic spacers. No idea where they came from, but they're perfect.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/SWRKmqx.jpg)

Ran up and down the highway for a little and noticed that I can lower the x-creen by a click or two and still get good results, so the spacers helped just a little. Nothing massive.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:i.imgur.com/kYERCpD.jpg)

I did notice that there is a lot of air flying up through the tunnel where the forks are. I saw that post on the forum recently about that guy that put some kind of U-shaped fabric on that tunnel. Might play around with that sometime. If I was riding in cold climates, I would make it priority, but here it's always so warm I'm not that concerned with it.

Anyway, will continue to test.  :821:
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Oldhorse on April 22, 2019, 03:13:45 AM
Thanks Thirtyone for the effort.
My result turned out similar to yours.
My final screen started as a 20" Madstad with  Madstad bracket and is now modded to allow my handguards room to turn, approx 1" spacers, mounted at the lowest position with normal hardware. Results were mediocre so added the MRA X screen tour drilled and perm mounted. With the arms positioned as in your photo was a decent improvement. Then I tried the mounts (without the arms) in the kit that only rotates but places the spoiler closer to the main screen and that is the best yet with minimal buffeting and noise. Not perfect but huge improvement. Will still use earplugs at speed.
I can check my oil now in peace!! Haha!

I re read the title of this topic and laughed because the best results are to lose the Madstad and get the X screen touring MRA.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: Jonathan on April 22, 2019, 08:54:35 AM
*Originally Posted by ThirtyOne [+]
....Can get a nice cruise at 45-55mph and it's very quiet behind the screen, to the point where I can hear distinct engine noise. Never was able to hear this before...

Let's hope you don't start hearing strange things..... :008:
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on April 22, 2019, 06:55:09 PM
*Originally Posted by Jonathan [+]
Let's hope you don't start hearing strange things..... :008:

Old family secret: just turn the music up louder.

 :008: :008: :008: :008:
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on April 22, 2019, 10:53:58 PM
*Originally Posted by Oldhorse [+]
Thanks Thirtyone for the effort.
My result turned out similar to yours.
My final screen started as a 20" Madstad with  Madstad bracket and is now modded to allow my handguards room to turn, approx 1" spacers, mounted at the lowest position with normal hardware. Results were mediocre so added the MRA X screen tour drilled and perm mounted. With the arms positioned as in your photo was a decent improvement. Then I tried the mounts (without the arms) in the kit that only rotates but places the spoiler closer to the main screen and that is the best yet with minimal buffeting and noise. Not perfect but huge improvement. Will still use earplugs at speed.
I can check my oil now in peace!! Haha!

I re read the title of this topic and laughed because the best results are to lose the Madstad and get the X screen touring MRA.

Glad that you found some value from this thread. It is funny that in the end I scrapped the Madstad altogether. I'm still running the side deflectors, but am not really sure how much they add anyway.

As mentioned above, I've yet to find the optimal design. Interesting that you just mounted the x-creen close. Seems like yet another option that I've yet to try. Any chance you can post some pics of your setup?
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: vickriz on May 01, 2019, 08:51:21 PM
I broke down and bought the MRA VarioTouringScreen. Arrived yesterday and mounted after work. Took a quick spin and found that while it was still noisy, I could hit speeds over 130 km/h without feeling like I had to clinge to the bars. So I'll play with positioning the little spoiler over the next few days to see if I can fine tune it. Initial testing had me opting for the lower, closer setting.
Title: Re: Tuning the Madstad 20" screen for a 6' Rider. Trial and Error.
Post by: ThirtyOne on May 01, 2019, 09:02:44 PM
*Originally Posted by vickriz [+]
I broke down and bought the MRA VarioTouringScreen. Arrived yesterday and mounted after work. Took a quick spin and found that while it was still noisy, I could hit speeds over 130 km/h without feeling like I had to clinge to the bars. So I'll play with positioning the little spoiler over the next few days to see if I can fine tune it. Initial testing had me opting for the lower, closer setting.

Thanks for posting. Would definitely like to hear about your results.  :821:

I took a bigger ride last weekend, which was mountain pass carving, some valley straights (sitting at 85-95mph for miles) and a bit of city.

So far I've found that the Givi with the x-creen and the spacers has been the best combo for me. I can ride with my helmet half-open up to about 65-70mph without excessive windblast on my face. 60-65 is the sweet spot. Closed there is no buffeting at all. The x-creen is placed pretty high though, where on flat ground it's just below my eyeline. On hills I look through the screen. I think that if you want full protection, it's the price you have to pay.

I also noticed that sitting closer to the tank/screen yielded better results, vs sitting back on the wider section of the seat. Less noise and more of the "bubble."

As far as noise, there is definitely a lot of it. Probably more than when I had the OEM stubby screen on the bike. I'll be getting a new helmet this summer, which I'm sure will make a big difference.

Still have one last screen to test also, which will be be at the end of June.