Honda CB500X

Main CB500X Boards => Suspension => Topic started by: hondamxracer on June 23, 2019, 10:56:48 PM

Title: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: hondamxracer on June 23, 2019, 10:56:48 PM
Does anyone know if the 2019 damper rods which are 10mm longer can be installed in 2015 forks?

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:static.advrider.com/f/data/attachments/1576/1576700-ee1158cdba25a78dbb33e358fbc82f10.jpg)
https://advrider.com/f/threads/honda-cb500x.840842/page-886#post-37853092
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: Oyabun on June 24, 2019, 10:01:12 AM
Yes they are a direct fit - I also suggest to use the matching springs from a '19 bike if you're not going for weight matched aftermarket linear springs. They (the 19 oem springs) are 5.5N/mm initially and have a much less harsh transition to the harder part at about 130mm travel (including preload) matching the damper rods much better than earlier springs.
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: hondamxracer on June 24, 2019, 03:12:27 PM
I was thinking about pairing the 19 dampers with some race tech springs
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: JMo on June 24, 2019, 05:54:02 PM
*Originally Posted by hondamxracer [+]
I was thinking about pairing the 19 dampers with some race tech springs

for info. If you buy the 2019 LEVEL 1 fork kit from Rally-Raid, you'll get their 2019 length dampers, plus proper shim-valve damping and longer linear wound springs (which eliminate the crappy plastic spacer). You'd have a proper matched set-up then.

Jx

Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: hondamxracer on July 22, 2019, 12:52:51 AM
My 2019 springs and dampers will be in this week. Should i stick with the 10 wt oil?

I read that the stock oil level measurement (spring removed, damper installed, fork compressed) is 160mm. Would you recommend sticking with this?

Any idea how many CCs 160 measures out to?
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: Oyabun on July 22, 2019, 01:05:01 PM
I have mixed 10w and 15w fork oil for a roughly 12.5w viscosity. You'll need avout 470-ish ml per fork leg to get to about 160mm air gap.
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: hondamxracer on July 22, 2019, 01:36:32 PM
What brand of oil are you using?
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: Oyabun on July 22, 2019, 02:00:29 PM
I'm using ENI in damper rod forks as that's what I have easy access to and have great performance/cost factor.
I tend t use Fuchs Silkolene in cartridge forks which I've found the best available, but that's quite a bit more expensive and harder to come by where I live.
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: hondamxracer on July 24, 2019, 03:45:06 AM
Thanks!

I installed the 2019 dampers today. I can confirm you do get 10mm of rise.

I drained the oil from both fork legs into a ratio-rite measuring cup and both legs measured just under 450cc. Should I put 450cc back in or the 470cc noted above?
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: Oyabun on July 24, 2019, 05:41:06 AM
Fill until you get about 160mm air gap.
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: CB-500-X on August 01, 2019, 02:51:58 AM
Sooooo how did this turn out ?
Parts are very cheap I might go the same route if is a decent improvement. Looking forward to your opinion after riding it for a bit.
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: gregjet on August 13, 2019, 11:25:36 PM
One thing I would point out is that the compression and rebound holes in the 2019 rods are significantly smaller than the previous model. The damping will be greater ( and possibility for lock greater at higher fluid velocities) in the 19's even though they have more travel and therefore need slightly softer springs. Now admittedly the stock early rods have really BAD damping and an aweful spring rate, so it may be an improvement, but I am pointing it out as something to consider when tuning your damping.
Honestly I think the RR way is probably better, even with higher unsprung weight of the full length springs and much heavier damper rods. RR and their suspension partner seem to have done really classy job on the front stuff. Suspension is ALWAYS worth spending money on.
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: hondamxracer on August 16, 2019, 03:24:23 AM
*Originally Posted by CB-500-X [+]
Sooooo how did this turn out ?
Parts are very cheap I might go the same route if is a decent improvement. Looking forward to your opinion after riding it for a bit.

A couple of days after installing the 2019 springs, dampers, and a cheap set preload caps, I set out on a 3K+ mile trip which included the Colorado BDR.

https://ridebdr.com/cobdr/

I must say that I was really impressed with how the suspension performed both on road and off. With the 2015 suspension, I always found myself bracing for the impact anytime I encountered a bump, rock, or obstacle in the road. But with the 2019 components, the suspension soaked up everything I threw at it. I recall plowing threw a set of baby heads on one pass almost like I was riding my enduro or mx bike.

In summary, I spent a little less than $100 US upgrading the suspension on my CB500X (front: springs, dampers, prelaod caps, oil; rear: GSXR750 shock). The best money I have spent in a long time on a bike. Before upgrading to the RR components, I would spend the $100 first to see if this meets your needs. If not, no harm. As I'm sure someone would gladly take a full suspension upgrade off your hands for less than $100  :002:.

(https://cdn.img.cb500x.com/IMG_9028.jpg)



Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: CB-500-X on August 16, 2019, 03:33:40 AM
 :152: :152: :152: :152: :152:
Fantastic !
I have never taken forks apart, do you have to take the forks completely apart or can you remove the spring and damper without removing the forks from the bike and install the 2019 stuff ???   (I already have the cheapo preload adjusters)
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: CB-500-X on August 26, 2019, 10:19:30 PM
Just ordered 2019 springs and dampers for my 2014  Can someone tell me how big a job this is ? Can the springs and dampers be replaced without taking everything apart ?
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: japes1275 on August 26, 2019, 10:42:45 PM
Basically its brake caliper off,  wheel off, remove mud guard and brace, undo top and bottom yoke clamp bolts and remove each fork leg. Then it's a strip and rebuild of each leg which I'll let someone else explain!
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: CB-500-X on August 27, 2019, 12:10:51 AM
Thanks guess everything does come apart and not a simple drop in. Thx for the reply
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: hondamxracer on August 27, 2019, 12:17:46 AM
*Originally Posted by CB-500-X [+]
Just ordered 2019 springs and dampers for my 2014  Can someone tell me how big a job this is ? Can the springs and dampers be replaced without taking everything apart ?

Before I started, I watched this video several times as I had never worked on forks before. This guy walks you through the entire process. But having completed it now, it was super simple.


A couple of things I will note. Before removing the front wheel, either unbolt the caliper or add some painters tape to the rim so that you don't scratch it. Secondly, I shortened the plastic spacers by 7/16'' using a miter saw with the 10mm+ dampers and the adjustable fork caps. You can skip this step for now. As you can always cut them down later. All you have to do is loosen the top cap with the forks still installed to gain access to them. Oh and, the air gap measurement is 160mm from the top of the fork to the oil without the spring installed and the stanchion tubes fully compressed.


Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: CB-500-X on August 27, 2019, 12:20:00 AM
Thank you. Still enjoying your new setup ? Makes a big difference huh?
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: japes1275 on August 27, 2019, 07:34:46 AM
Yes, YouTube is your friend with stuff like this. You might even find something CB500 related to go from.

The owners manual covers removal and refit of the wheels so that should help as well.

There is an Allen head bolt in the bottom of the fork (wheel spindle has to be out to see it) that I think you need to remove to get the damper rod out. Its v tight and best if you have a ratchet drive type Allen socket rather than a typical Allen key. It's been a while since I did mine so forgive me if it's a bit vague. If you search out some of the Rally Raid threads you should find a lot more info on stripping the forks.

In fact just had a thought, go to Rally Raid Products website and find the Level 1 fork kit. There should online instructions there with photos which should help.

Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: Oyabun on August 27, 2019, 07:42:05 AM
Very good comments from others.
I'd add that you want to loosen (do not remove, just get it started) the cap while still fixed in the triples, and also loosen the bottom allen hex bolt while the legs are together - the preload pressure helps tho keep the damper rod in place.
Also before you remove the cap, loosen the preload adjuster if you have one, otherwise the cap can go airborn. If you have no preload adjuster cap, it's time to install one when you assemble everything. Lastly make sure you drain the fluid well by cycling the forks to pump out fluid before you attempt assembly. The legs have some 460ml of fluid but even a small amount can make a huge mess.
Lastly, don't know how many miles you have on your bike, and what's the status of your seals, but this would be a good time to change those too if they are in need of doing so.
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: Sherloc on September 11, 2019, 09:02:14 PM
*Originally Posted by hondamxracer [+]
In summary, I spent a little less than $100 US upgrading the suspension on my CB500X (front: springs, dampers, prelaod caps, oil; rear: GSXR750 shock). The best money I have spent in a long time on a bike.

Did you use the stock GSXR spring or change it out? To confirm, for the fork ití 2019 OEM damper rod and front spring?

Thanks for the feedback!

Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: Bradmeister on September 17, 2019, 04:57:22 AM
HONDAMXRACER,

No U-Tube is not your friend, The Blind leading the blind.
The man on the video, obviously has no idea what he is doing......

All of you should have been taught in Middle School or Jounior High (Especially you folks in the USA) A Spring is an ENERGY STORAGE DEVICE!  it is specifically made for a purpose, with a spring rate(s) and Stroke! It is made from different materials and has different processes to come up with a desired result.

A Man installing A race/sport bike spring from whatever year of a YZF600 and throws it at his Honda 500 and hope it works out is a fool.  So, you are now following a fool!

Did you not see the Dual Spring Rate that came out of the Honda?  Did you not see the single rate spring going in?  THAT SHOULD BE A VERY LARGE RED FLAG TO ALL OF YOU!

.....as far as damper rods and Oils. 

Damper Tubes, actually.....  when lengthened do what?  Thats right, change the Squat of your bike! So now you just raised the Handlebars, changed the geometry of the Bike, and affected the ability for it to turn.  Thank about it.

Oils, You guys who think Fork Oils are regulated by some Racing agency or secret Government agency........WRONG.  Oil is for Final Tuning and it's very very important!

A 10 Wt oil from Honda (which is Actually Transmission Fluid) has a vescosity index of 35.2 cSt @ 40C. A 10 wt oil from White Power has a Viscosity of 48.1, and A 10 Wt oil from ohlins has a viscosity of 22. Does that mean anything to any of you? Probably not.  Go look it up!

You have no idea what viscosity you have unless you look it up, do your home work, and really build your dream forks! 

The Engineers at Ohlins, Wilbers, Nitron, and whoever, are spending 10's of thousands of dollars a year, making Newer motorcycles ride smoother, more stable, and with the confidence you want from your suspension. They buy almost every Bike made, take it apart, measure, test and proto type the suspensions they make. 

Do they have off days just like everyone else, on some models? Sure they do, But they have a lot of more research, engineering and experimenting in controlled test enviroments then all of you combined. DO THE MATH!

Stop hacking your Bikes, watching VDO's and trying to do suspensions on the cheap!  Read the horror stories on the Web, of people crashing the're bikes, because they lost control of the machine, or can't stand the way they ride any longer.

Don't be that guy, thenall the money you thought you saved, and all the effort and time you lost.....could have been riding your next adventure!

Cheers

Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: Sherloc on September 18, 2019, 01:49:50 AM
*Originally Posted by hondamxracer [+]
In summary, I spent a little less than $100 US upgrading the suspension on my CB500X (front: springs, dampers, prelaod caps, oil; rear: GSXR750 shock). The best money I have spent in a long time on a bike. Before upgrading to the RR components, I would spend the $100 first to see if this meets your needs. If not, no harm. As I'm sure someone would gladly take a full suspension upgrade off your hands for less than $100 

@hindamxracer - From whom\where did you source the 2019 parts?

Thx!
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: CB-500-X on September 18, 2019, 02:36:53 AM
Hereís your link :

https://www.cheapcycleparts.com/oemparts/l/hon/5c7f2b3e87a8661aa0391027/2019-cb500x-ac-parts?dropdown=t

All 2019 parts in stock
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: Sherloc on September 18, 2019, 03:22:25 AM
*Originally Posted by CB-500-X [+]
Hereís your link :

https://www.cheapcycleparts.com/oemparts/l/hon/5c7f2b3e87a8661aa0391027/2019-cb500x-ac-parts?dropdown=t

All 2019 parts in stock


Thanks! Itís amazing the spread in pricing you find.
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: motorboy on September 18, 2019, 05:04:14 AM
*Originally Posted by Bradmeister [+]
HONDAMXRACER,

No U-Tube is not your friend, The Blind leading the blind.
The man on the video, obviously has no idea what he is doing......

All of you should have been taught in Middle School or Jounior High (Especially you folks in the USA) A Spring is an ENERGY STORAGE DEVICE!  it is specifically made for a purpose, with a spring rate(s) and Stroke! It is made from different materials and has different processes to come up with a desired result.

A Man installing A race/sport bike spring from whatever year of a YZF600 and throws it at his Honda 500 and hope it works out is a fool.  So, you are now following a fool!

Did you not see the Dual Spring Rate that came out of the Honda?  Did you not see the single rate spring going in?  THAT SHOULD BE A VERY LARGE RED FLAG TO ALL OF YOU!

.....as far as damper rods and Oils. 

Damper Tubes, actually.....  when lengthened do what?  Thats right, change the Squat of your bike! So now you just raised the Handlebars, changed the geometry of the Bike, and affected the ability for it to turn.  Thank about it.

Oils, You guys who think Fork Oils are regulated by some Racing agency or secret Government agency........WRONG.  Oil is for Final Tuning and it's very very important!

A 10 Wt oil from Honda (which is Actually Transmission Fluid) has a vescosity index of 35.2 cSt @ 40C. A 10 wt oil from White Power has a Viscosity of 48.1, and A 10 Wt oil from ohlins has a viscosity of 22. Does that mean anything to any of you? Probably not.  Go look it up!

You have no idea what viscosity you have unless you look it up, do your home work, and really build your dream forks! 

The Engineers at Ohlins, Wilbers, Nitron, and whoever, are spending 10's of thousands of dollars a year, making Newer motorcycles ride smoother, more stable, and with the confidence you want from your suspension. They buy almost every Bike made, take it apart, measure, test and proto type the suspensions they make. 

Do they have off days just like everyone else, on some models? Sure they do, But they have a lot of more research, engineering and experimenting in controlled test enviroments then all of you combined. DO THE MATH!

Stop hacking your Bikes, watching VDO's and trying to do suspensions on the cheap!  Read the horror stories on the Web, of people crashing the're bikes, because they lost control of the machine, or can't stand the way they ride any longer.

Don't be that guy, thenall the money you thought you saved, and all the effort and time you lost.....could have been riding your next adventure!

Cheers
All good except you missed the main point-he did it and it worked so what's the problem-if we don't do things outside the box how do we learn
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: Gills on September 18, 2019, 12:13:37 PM
*Originally Posted by Bradmeister [+]
Oils, You guys who think Fork Oils are regulated by some Racing agency or secret Government agency........WRONG.  Oil is for Final Tuning and it's very very important!

A 10 Wt oil from Honda (which is Actually Transmission Fluid) has a vescosity index of 35.2 cSt @ 40C. A 10 wt oil from White Power has a Viscosity of 48.1, and A 10 Wt oil from ohlins has a viscosity of 22. Does that mean anything to any of you? Probably not.  Go look it up!

Slightly OT, but I don't understand why fork oil is specified and sold by Wt figures, but the real measure of its performance is its viscosity, which varies wildly. There is also no consideration of its performance at different temperatures - the viscosity of my fork oil is going to be very different on a wet winter UK road (temperature under 5C, with spray cooling the outside of the fork) to a someone riding hard in southern europe during summer (dry and 40+C temps).
Title: Re: 2019 Damper Rods In Pre-2018
Post by: timur on September 18, 2019, 12:46:23 PM
*Originally Posted by Gills [+]
Slightly OT, but I don't understand why fork oil is specified and sold by Wt figures, but the real measure of its performance is its viscosity, which varies wildly. There is also no consideration of its performance at different temperatures - the viscosity of my fork oil is going to be very different on a wet winter UK road (temperature under 5C, with spray cooling the outside of the fork) to a someone riding hard in southern europe during summer (dry and 40+C temps).
Certainly the fork works bit different with hot and cold weather - here in Madrid we have 40deg in summer and below 0 in winter. And in summer the fork feels bit mushy while in winter it's harsh during the first km at the morning. Low speed damping is the most affected in this case but only if you have shim valves installed - stock fork is less sensible to temp variation.