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Offline Hotrod

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Re: reducing jerkiness
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2018, 07:04:13 PM »
Even when you gently increase the revs and hold them steady at  2  3 and 4000 + rpm without load for example in neutral ?  because if the revs deviate when you're doing that test,  surely you'll notice that when out for a gentle ride on a level road,  but then saying that  Most of the motorists that i see on the road accelerate and decelerate hard and never notice any fluctuation in the engine's performance anyway so it probably doesn't bother them,  just my humble opinion so please don't sentence me to life  :431:

Offline SnowOwl

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Re: reducing jerkiness
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2018, 07:26:59 PM »
No carbs for me!  I'm done with that mess.  I love being able to fire up the bike in any weather, hot or cold, and just riding off.  No messing with a choke and no challenge to get moving until it warms up.  I park my bike in my basement and with fuel injection I can start it in the basement in the morning and ride out without stinking up the entire house.  Another big plus with FI is the substantially better gas mileage which is one of the strong points of this bike.
1980 Suzuki GS250T - Sold a long time ago
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1982 Suzuki PE175 - For exploring the farm with the dog
2016 Honda CB500X ABS - All round commuter and day trips

Offline HCCI

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Re: reducing jerkiness
« Reply #52 on: December 29, 2018, 10:38:52 PM »
*Originally Posted by Hotrod [+]
Even when you gently increase the revs and hold them steady at  2  3 and 4000 + rpm without load for example in neutral ?  because if the revs deviate when you're doing that test,  surely you'll notice that when out for a gentle ride on a level road,  but then saying that  Most of the motorists that i see on the road accelerate and decelerate hard and never notice any fluctuation in the engine's performance anyway so it probably doesn't bother them,  just my humble opinion so please don't sentence me to life  :431:
Hello.
Your opinion is spot on with what it feels on my bike, Below 2200 RPM on flat road, the engine is going to shake but strangely it might not happened if going uphill. I find myself a lot of times downshifting one gear on the flat portion of a road after going uphill with a taller gear just moments before. This sounds like a defective TPS i know but mine has been tested and it is fine. When new, the bike did shake but it was at lower speed, around 51 KM/h in 6th gear but now after 21000 Ks it happens at 55 km/h. For me it seems there is a flat spot when going from idle up to a certain throttle opening that causes this. It is throttle position related more than anything else. People pushing the bike harder might not even notice this but those seeking for frugality will hit a wall every time the throttle will reach a certain aperture just where the flat spot begins. Carburetors had a series of small holes along the course of the throttle plate from closed to avoid this.

Offline Phil80

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Re: reducing jerkiness
« Reply #53 on: December 29, 2018, 10:58:04 PM »
Guys,
After giving up my 500x earlier this year, I know your thoughts on the jerkiness- i found it worse round town. When i got my ktm i found a similar thing. When i started looking into it it seems (on the ktm) has 2 maps a really lean one for emissions unto about 4k rpm then switches to a better fuelled map, this is to meet euro 3 standards.

This lean map made town riding horrible, surging, slight chugging when backing off and manoeuvring near idle. Some people had fitted o2 eliminators - which, by passes the o2 sensor with a plug - in this plug are resistors of a certain value to get an adequate fuel value being injected.
For me this made a huge difference, i was sceptical but thought 20 for mine was worth a punt, worked for me.

I think it maybe worth trying for you guys that don't like the jerkiness. Cant say its affected my mpg either.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Oxygen-Lambda-O2-Sensor-Eliminator-Kit-Honda-CB-500-F-X-Cb500f-Cb500x/8020159215

Regards

Online Jonathan

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Re: reducing jerkiness
« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2018, 02:29:28 AM »
Most modern FI bikes are on the lean side in stock form, but it's something you can usually work round with lowered gearing or a bit of clutch slip. Not had a look, but I'm assuming there's a power commander or similar available for the CB range by now. How much an O2 bypass would affect the Cat long term would be good to know...

The other thing to consider is the throttle action itself, if you don't fancy tweaking factory fueling. Having a bit of twist resistance isn't such a bad thing.

I don't notice any snatchiness on my 2016 (stock filter & exhaust) but for 20 it'd be interesting to see if there's any improvement in general pick up.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 02:47:39 AM by Jonathan »

Offline ThirtyOne

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Re: reducing jerkiness
« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2018, 02:47:05 AM »
*Originally Posted by Jonathan [+]
Most modern FI bikes are on the lean side in stock form, but it's something you can usually work round with lowered gearing or a bit of clutch slip. Not had a look, but I'm assuming there's a power commander or similar available for the CB range by now. How much an O2 bypass would affect the Cat long term would be good to know...

There are. And a grip of gents over on the CBR500R forum have apparently cracked the ECU open and are navigating custom maps. Oyabun is also going to work in his lab as we speak.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 02:48:43 AM by ThirtyOne »

Offline CaptCapsize

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Re: reducing jerkiness
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2018, 05:04:24 PM »
You could try a G2 Throttle Tamer.  It is a throttle tube with a cam change for reducing the initial cable pull.  It made an huge difference on my WR450F.  It is geared low and has a lot of initial power.  It was very jerky in rough terrain which caused me a lot of grief/pain.  Check it out.
 
https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/g2-throttle-tamer-honda
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Online Mister Paul

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Re: reducing jerkiness
« Reply #57 on: December 31, 2018, 08:52:47 AM »
Jerkiness is a rider issue. I admit that coming to my second X from a scooter it did feel overly jerky. A few months of riding later and it's jerk-free. It's all about wrist action.

Online Jonathan

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Re: reducing jerkiness
« Reply #58 on: December 31, 2018, 07:06:11 PM »
just had an email back from a guy named Jens Lyck,in Denmark, who's a bit of a whizz with Fuel Injection, programming etc. He personally wouldn't recommend ditching the O2 sensor on the CB 500 range, for several reasons. The preferred method to richen the mixture is to 'fool' the Air intake Temp. sensor into thinking it's colder than it actually is, but if you used a straightforward linear NCT resistor to achieve this, it doesn't take the actual temperature into account...so on a hot day, you could end up running massively rich. In short, you'd want a resistor that trims the air intake temp with some form of monitoring to 'switch' it on or off. He's developed a plug and play unit that does just this, but according to Jens, Honda integrated the IAT sensor with other feedback sensors in such a way that it's practically impossible to isolate and tweak the sensor in question.

Simply removing the O2 sensor will richen the mixture up since the ECU will see a lean condition and alter the Air/Fuel ratio accordingly, but it only does this during the times it's actually relying on feedback from the O2 sensor (eg. steady throttle, cruising speeds), which isn't really when you'd need a richer mixture...the net effect would be to reduce mpg.

The O2 sensor eliminators currently available for the X are the small resistor type that send the correct signal to the dash to prevent a fault code, but don't take any account of the intake air temperature....so richer throughout the entire range (up to the limits set by the ECU software), whether it's required or not. So it may reduce jerkiness off idle (desirable), but add fuel at cruising (not really desirable).

He looked into developing a product for the CB 500 range a while ago, but didn't take it any further on account of the issues stated earlier.

The long and short of it is that eliminating the O2 sensor will richen the A/F ratio and may cure the snatchiness, but in hotter climates, you may want to think about running hotter grade plugs and using a less restrictive air filter...

If you can achieve the same ends with grip puppies, a throttle damper or whatever, I'd personally try these first


Aftermarket fuel programming would seem like the only nailed-on solution, but as far as I'm concerned, Honda know a damned sight more about it than me, and unless you've deviated from stock with different throttle bodies, cams, compression ratio, etc. I don't see the point on this bike.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 07:12:26 PM by Jonathan »

Offline SnowOwl

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Re: reducing jerkiness
« Reply #59 on: December 31, 2018, 08:38:43 PM »
 :460:  The physical design of this engine is one that emphasizes torque and not horse power.  This was done intentionally by Honda to give a bike that performs well but stays within the beginner class licensing restrictions for the countries that have those restrictions.  It is not a high performance sport bike and cannot be made into one due to the physical dimensions of the bore/stroke, crankshaft and gearing.  Sure, you can spend a lot of money and get maybe 10% more out of it, but why not take the original purchase price plus all the extra money to try to make it something its not and buy a bike that is designed to do what you are looking for?
1980 Suzuki GS250T - Sold a long time ago
------------
1982 Suzuki PE175 - For exploring the farm with the dog
2016 Honda CB500X ABS - All round commuter and day trips

 


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