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Offline Rouvenster

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False Neutral
« on: December 13, 2018, 07:39:45 AM »
There is nothing that makes me feel more like a noob than a false neutral  :008:
So here is the thing : I have this cb500x 2016 for 3 months now, and when I try to accelerate after a full stop, when I shift to second gear, I have something like 30%-40% chance to enter neutral. Sometimes I successfully shift to 2nd, and after 5 seconds the bike goes like "meh" and suddenly enter neutral. At the beginning i thought "well, I have to squeeze the clutch harder and shift more firmly with my foot, and in few months I'll get used to it" but after 3 month it still happens and it's very annoying, and yesterday I even had a "real" false neutral, meaning I failed to shift between 4 and 5 gear and was with no gear at 80 or 90 km/h for few seconds.

I have some ideas what it could be : I have relatively tiny hands and sometimes struggle with the big fully extended clutch lever.  Or it may be related to the clutch cable, never really checked that one.
I have ordered smaller adjustable levers and I will check all that while installing them, but any one here had something similar ? Any ideas ?
Thanks
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 07:42:50 AM by Rouvenster »

Offline AJC500

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Re: False Neutral
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2018, 09:25:15 AM »
Not a problem I have had, but I wonder if it is the gear change needing adjusted rather than the clutch?

One thing to mention is that because the gear shift lever faces backwards from the gearbox spindle, it is possible to get your foot on the lever part rather than the projecting 'peg' part (if you know what I mean) - that could mean you weren't getting the full movement on the shifter....

Pics of standard lever in front of spindle and Honda lever coming backwards off spindle - you foot can end up on the lever part......
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Offline Ceebixits500

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Re: False Neutral
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2018, 10:37:59 AM »
When I bought my 500, I had to make a big adjustment to the shift linkage. The shift lever was far to low for my boot to get a seamless shift. Some folk must have tiny feet!
It's no fun when you have to think about your riding and possible false neutrals. You want to be in that unconsciously able mode so you can get into that 'flight zone' feeling.
Ceebixits

Offline Jonathan

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Re: False Neutral
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2018, 11:54:14 AM »
*Originally Posted by Rouvenster [+]
There is nothing that makes me feel more like a noob than a false neutral  :008:
So here is the thing : I have this cb500x 2016 for 3 months now, and when I try to accelerate after a full stop, when I shift to second gear, I have something like 30%-40% chance to enter neutral. Sometimes I successfully shift to 2nd, and after 5 seconds the bike goes like "meh" and suddenly enter neutral. At the beginning i thought "well, I have to squeeze the clutch harder and shift more firmly with my foot, and in few months I'll get used to it" but after 3 month it still happens and it's very annoying, and yesterday I even had a "real" false neutral, meaning I failed to shift between 4 and 5 gear and was with no gear at 80 or 90 km/h for few seconds.

I have some ideas what it could be : I have relatively tiny hands and sometimes struggle with the big fully extended clutch lever.  Or it may be related to the clutch cable, never really checked that one.
I have ordered smaller adjustable levers and I will check all that while installing them, but any one here had something similar ? Any ideas ?
Thanks

I'm pretty sure the 2016 had some minor changes to address a shifting problem experienced by enough riders for Honda to revise it. Check the play in the clutch lever (you can do this with a ruler, as measured from the handle bar to the tip of the lever...should be around 10mm....adjust the barrel nut accordingly)

Once you've done this, go for another ride and see if you have the same issue. It actually sounds like there's too much lash in the gear linkage (assuming the clutch is OK), which can be taken out by undoing the nuts on the heim joint (linkage arm)

it's a trial and error thing, as all bikes will be different in terms of tolerance, wear and rider preference...the stock manual setting is the starting point.

Always worth cleaning and greasing the couplings while you're at it.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 11:59:35 AM by Jonathan »

Offline Herman

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Re: False Neutral
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2018, 06:30:35 PM »
My 16 is the same if thats any consolation. I have to be really accurate with the shift and I have a feeling it is more to do with my big boot resting against the shift possibly not letting it return to where it wants to be then not liking the next shift up. I have not had the time or weather to investigate fully and the bike is getting the RR treatment over winter so a folding tip will happen at some point. As a test move your left boot well away from the shift after each change, feels weird, but it will tell you if it is your boot. If its dropping out of gears then that is mechanical btw but it sounds unlikely.

Offline SnowOwl

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Re: False Neutral
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2018, 07:19:51 PM »
It is very likely you just need to adjust the gear shift linkage.  A lot of us have had to do this to get it to work correctly for our particular physical makeup and boot size.  Take a look at this thread for how to make the adjustment, it really is quite easy:

https://www.cb500x.com/index.php/topic,7326.0.html

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Online ThirtyOne

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Re: False Neutral
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2018, 07:28:35 PM »
I've had my X for a short while and only had one false neutral. The throw between 1st and 2nd is a bit longer than what my muscle memory is conditioned to, but I've already acclimated. There are some good suggestions posted above. If the mechanical fixes don't work, then you'll probably simply need to work on your technique. I do see your concern though. Hitting neutral while flying down the road on a bike can be a very unpleasant surprise.

Offline nbsdave

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Re: False Neutral
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2018, 08:46:21 PM »
I think snowowl summed it up well
adjust the linkage and keep your foot in the same place all the time when shifting.
Sometimes when I wear boots other than my normal riding ones, I have similar issues from first to second, goes away when I put on the proper footwear.
also, the neutral between 1st and 2nd isn't "false" that's where it belongs

Offline Jonnielights

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Re: False Neutral
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2018, 05:21:17 AM »
*Originally Posted by Ceebixits500 [+]
When I bought my 500, I had to make a big adjustment to the shift linkage. The shift lever was far to low for my boot to get a seamless shift. Some folk must have tiny feet!
It's no fun when you have to think about your riding and possible false neutrals. You want to be in that unconsciously able mode so you can get into that 'flight zone' feeling.

Had this same issue, but the adjustment to the two nuts in the linkage solved it.  As for the false neutral some of the other suggestions in the post might be more your problem as it wasen't just false neutrals for me before my linkage adjustment, but all shifting in general.

Offline Jonnielights

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Re: False Neutral
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2018, 05:26:46 AM »
And note, there is a reverse thread in one of the two linkage adjustment nuts, I forget which one and learned the hard way.  Check your owners manual before you adjust to be sure, it's in there.

 


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