Author Topic: False Neutral  (Read 2836 times)

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Offline gregjet

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Re: False Neutral
Reply #10 on: December 14, 2018, 08:03:31 PM
Most common cause of false neutral  or just not changing up, is the gear lever position. If it is too low it doesn't allow the shifter pawl to go back far enough to engage the next shifter pin. If too high it just go far enough upwards. Changing ridewear boots can have an effect , ifi it was OK to start with. Honda are notorious for it, because of their shift design. Properly adjusted they are fine, just finniky about position. If you have changed to a thicker boot it can have the same effect.

Offline Ceebixits500

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Re: False Neutral
Reply #11 on: December 14, 2018, 09:31:57 PM
*Originally Posted by gregjet [+]
...... Honda are notorious for it, because of their shift design.....
That may be, but I have to give Honda full credit for whatever they have changed on the 2018 CB500X gearbox.
The way it slips into first gear from a stop is like a hot knife going into butter.
No jerk, no clunk, no jolt. Just a very positive, gentle meshing of teeth.
This pleases my sense of mechanical empathy  :152:

All other bikes I've ever owned have left me wondering when something in there was going to disintegrate.
But, amazingly, nothing ever did   :305:
Ceebixits

Offline Jonathan

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Re: False Neutral
Reply #12 on: December 14, 2018, 10:50:48 PM
I had a closer look at mine this evening, just out of interest (as you do...)

Anyway, there's a certain amount of lash in the linkage...I presumed it would be the rose joints, but it's actually wear between the lower spigot shaft and the hole in the shift pedal that the shaft locates in....

circled green in the pic below:



 




I don't have any real problems shifting but it can be a PIA to select 1st from time to time. This wear won't help, but it shouldn't be enough to cause shifting issues as things stand. However, it does make me think that a future upgrade might be in order, using better quality rod end bearings...and maybe a riv nut in the hole to beef the connection up a bit
Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 10:59:13 PM by Jonathan

Offline bdg

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Re: False Neutral
Reply #13 on: December 15, 2018, 03:26:04 PM
Somewhat interesting short YouTube video on this topic from MC Garage:

Offline SnowOwl

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Re: False Neutral
Reply #14 on: December 15, 2018, 04:02:07 PM
*Originally Posted by Jonathan [+]
I had a closer look at mine this evening, just out of interest (as you do...)

Anyway, there's a certain amount of lash in the linkage...I presumed it would be the rose joints, but it's actually wear between the lower spigot shaft and the hole in the shift pedal that the shaft locates in....

circled green in the pic below:



 




I don't have any real problems shifting but it can be a PIA to select 1st from time to time. This wear won't help, but it shouldn't be enough to cause shifting issues as things stand. However, it does make me think that a future upgrade might be in order, using better quality rod end bearings...and maybe a riv nut in the hole to beef the connection up a bit
What you have circled shouldn’t have any movement at all.  It is the end of the ball-post that the linkage ball-cap snaps onto.  The ball-post should be swagged into the shifter arm and be a solid attachment.  You probably need to replace your shifter arm.

I purchased a new gear shifter arm with the idea of shortening it.  But I finally found the right position after adjusting it several times and gave up on the idea of shortening it.  It is part number 24720-MGZ-305.  So, if you are interested in a replacement for cost of shipping, just shoot me a PM.


Last Edit: December 15, 2018, 04:07:39 PM by SnowOwl
1980 Suzuki GS250T - Sold a long time ago
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1982 Suzuki PE175 - For exploring the farm with the dog
2016 Honda CB500X ABS - All round commuter and day trips

Offline Jonathan

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Re: False Neutral
Reply #15 on: December 15, 2018, 06:50:31 PM
*Originally Posted by SnowOwl [+]
What you have circled shouldn’t have any movement at all.  It is the end of the ball-post that the linkage ball-cap snaps onto.  The ball-post should be swagged into the shifter arm and be a solid attachment.  You probably need to replace your shifter arm.

I purchased a new gear shifter arm with the idea of shortening it.  But I finally found the right position after adjusting it several times and gave up on the idea of shortening it.  It is part number 24720-MGZ-305.  So, if you are interested in a replacement for cost of shipping, just shoot me a PM.




Thanks for the confirmation. :028: I thought as much when I looked at it. It's just under 10,000 miles so it hasn't faired very well...I'll see how much levers are going for and have a look at what else is available. If I can find some good quality rose joints I might try to strengthen the thing up a bit.

Offline Jonathan

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Re: False Neutral
Reply #16 on: December 15, 2018, 07:22:58 PM
one of these should do it...just need to check the thread size....it looks around M6, M5 without measuring

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stainless-Steel-Motorcycle-Gear-Link-M6-Ball-Socket-Joint-10mm-Right-Hand-HS/253245222204?epid=9008779740&hash=item3af6976d3c:g:1FoAAOSw6WFaAFEo


and the pivot end is crying out for a needle bearing or a bronze bush...come on Honda, sort it out
Last Edit: December 15, 2018, 07:26:36 PM by Jonathan

Offline SnowOwl

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Re: False Neutral
Reply #17 on: December 15, 2018, 07:36:59 PM
It’s a budget bike build to a budget standard...
1980 Suzuki GS250T - Sold a long time ago
------------
1982 Suzuki PE175 - For exploring the farm with the dog
2016 Honda CB500X ABS - All round commuter and day trips

Offline Jonathan

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Re: False Neutral
Reply #18 on: December 15, 2018, 07:39:43 PM
*Originally Posted by SnowOwl [+]
It’s a budget bike build to a budget standard...

owned and ridden by budget people.... :080:

Offline Pocketpete

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Re: False Neutral
Reply #19 on: December 31, 2018, 12:14:13 PM
My gearbox was odd when I got the bike gear changes were iffy.

These improved when I did my first oil change and put decent oil in.

As the bikes aged the gearbox has got smoother but I realised it changes so much better if you make sure you only touch the tip if the gear lever. Which can be difficult with big boots on.

Once you find the correct spot it's smooth and never gives me any problem.

 



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