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Offline japes1275

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Re: Owned a CBR600RR and want improved suspension on the X
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2019, 10:26:17 PM »
Jenny, yes I see your point but I still think it would be good to have that option. You mentioned using the lowering kit before in another thread and at the time I thought it was the perfect solution. But I'm sure I read a post by John that made me think that might not be possible - though there's more chance of you being right than me! Anyway, I made my decision and went for the Level 1 (I'm talking about the 2019 bike here not the 2013 I had!) mostly for cost reasons but also thinking I might even prefer to use the lowering links to be even lower.

So I'm happy with my choice and am looking forward to everything arriving - especially the wheels. And guess what - I've even decided to try going without a centre stand! The engine guard is on the way as well and I've even made a temporary enduro type stand and given it a try! Got a great deal on the Serket exhaust as well (270) with an eBay voucher and am well happy with it.

But to get back on topic for the OP I'd say the fact that I'm happy to buy the Level 1 again should tell you how worthwhile I think it is.

Offline Monkey

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Re: Owned a CBR600RR and want improved suspension on the X
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2019, 06:19:01 AM »
Jenny, I was told by Rally Raid that the lowering links for the 2019 can only be fitted to the level 1 suspension, as I thought I might fit them to my level 2 suspension at a later date when I fit the spoked wheels and get a height increase with a 140/80. I am as high as I can cope with with the 160/60, being rather vertically challenged.
What do you think?

Offline JMo

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Re: Owned a CBR600RR and want improved suspension on the X
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2019, 06:32:41 AM »
*Originally Posted by Monkey [+]
Jenny, I was told by Rally Raid that the lowering links for the 2019 can only be fitted to the level 1 suspension, as I thought I might fit them to my level 2 suspension at a later date when I fit the spoked wheels and get a height increase with a 140/80. I am as high as I can cope with with the 160/60, being rather vertically challenged.
What do you think?

Hi Monkey - I'll double check with John and confirm here - it could well be that the LEVEL 2 shock is physically too long to fit once the lowering links are added too.

note. If that is the case, I apologise for getting anyone's hopes up earlier... either way, the standard travel LEVEL 1 shock is still offers a significant improvement in ride quality and damping, can be fitted with the optional remote preload adjuster, and specced with a range of spring rates of course.

Jx
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 06:33:21 AM by JMo »
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Offline toast

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Re: Owned a CBR600RR and want improved suspension on the X
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2019, 12:15:09 AM »
Thanks for all the replies.

I am curious about the options for fine-tuning the Level 1 spring rate and the shim stack.

The lowest spring rate of 5.0nm is rated up to 120kg rider weight which indicates a fairly broad tuning and I can't help think that a more granular option within the lower range might improve performance for lighter riders.

Any thoughts on this?

Offline JMo

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Re: Owned a CBR600RR and want improved suspension on the X
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2019, 12:29:21 AM »
*Originally Posted by toast [+]
Thanks for all the replies.

I am curious about the options for fine-tuning the Level 1 spring rate and the shim stack.

The lowest spring rate of 5.0nm is rated up to 120kg rider weight which indicates a fairly broad tuning and I can't help think that a more granular option within the lower range might improve performance for lighter riders.

Any thoughts on this?

Hi Toast - happy to help... for info. the Rally-Raid shim stack is not designed to be user-serviceable, it is pre-set from TracTive to offer what they consider is the optimum all-round damping performance for how this bike is typically used.

If you know what you're doing, then it's feasible to alter the shims, but I'd suggest that unless you are a suspension expert, there is a good chance you could f*** things up, and once you've had those shims apart, you're going to be on you own with regard to warranty etc.

If you are looking for more reactive damping characteristics [due to you being lighter in weight], then personally I suggest you start by using a lighter weight oil (I use 5w in my bike anyway, and I'm not especially light - it's just I prefer the way it reacts more quickly, particularly as I ride a lot of mixed and rough terrain), and if you're worried about blowing though all your travel with the 5.0 rate springs, simply add a little more oil [10-20ml] to each leg and reduce the air-gap - which will help to slow the stroke towards the end of the travel.

Hope that helps...

Jx
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Offline gregjet

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Re: Owned a CBR600RR and want improved suspension on the X
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2019, 10:32:30 PM »
I am using my X for road touring. I am an ex road racer so I am a bit finnicky about my suspension.
I have been modding the X as a project bike with a view to putting it's lardarse on a diet, but I always do the suspension. To that end I have fitted a Ohlins rear shock and Alloy linkage plates to lower the rear about 28mm. The two things were also to reduce weight.
The front end I fittied Andreani cartridges which require permanent change of the internals. The cartridges were modded by a great suspension guy in the US that I worked with on my MT07.
A couple of days I finally got to ride it on a nice big loop to go to the bakery of renown ( about 420km). It included some nice twisty bits, some less than smooth road  and some small amounts of dirt road, as well as highway.
The set up gave fantastic control, but the rear shock damping wasn't overly happy about the rougher bitumen ( surprisingly OK on the dirt sections). Overall very good for touring, but I need to tweek the rear a bit still. Note: this is on Michelin Road 5's which are not a harsh tyre, especially compoared to the steel hoops OEM.
MY opinion is, that for the road overly long travel suspension is a not pleasant, because of brake rock and dive, and on low frequency bumpy roads, it can feel "sloshy".
The 19" can be a pain to get to turn in on the road. My last tourer was a Husqvana TR650 with a 19 front and required real effort to get it turning at speed ( with Michie Pilot Road 4's). The 19 ruled on dirt sections though. The long trail on the X doesn't help turn in either.
After the sports bike, it is going to feel like a barge to corner on the tar at speed.
The RR front internals look well made and will improve the damping a lot from the reports I have read but if you are going to stick to the road and ride it hard I suggest limiting the front  travel to the original model stock or a max of +10mm. Also suggest trying it with playing with shortening the trail ( effective fork length, rear height, tyre profile etc).
Just my 2 cents worth.



Offline toast

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Re: Owned a CBR600RR and want improved suspension on the X
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2019, 10:09:20 AM »
Thanks JMo, gregjet and others. Great info. I think that it might be a good to go with the RRP Level 1 fork upgrade and save for a second bike that is suited to sport riding.

The Andreani cartridges are a nice option too.

Good tip on the oil.

Will see how things go 👉

Offline zereplim

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Re: Owned a CBR600RR and want improved suspension on the X
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2019, 04:52:09 PM »
*Originally Posted by JMo [+]
Hi Japes - as you've found, the 19" front end makes the bike feel more stable and 'carve' corners, rather than drop in supermoto style as it does with the original 17" front wheel.

With regard to original LEVEL 1b option, it was never a big seller (as the additional cost was all in the higher spec rear shock of course), and unless seat height was a particular issue, most people considered the extra travel as much of a benefit too and went for the LEVEL 2 set-up.

However, with the 2019 model introduction, the LEVEL 2 kit for that bike is far simpler (as you no longer need the billet top-clamp and risers as you do with the earlier bikes), and there is nothing to stop you fitting the LEVEL 2 suspension kit and the -20mm lowering links to drop the rear end back down to the stock 2019 model ride-height, and slide the forks through the triples a little at the front too - so you've effectively got your LEVEl 1b kit again.

That way you'd also have the best of both worlds as you could always revert it to the full height/travel LEVEL 2 spec by swapping the lowering dog bones back to the OEM ones, and moving the forks back to their original height too.

Jx

Hi JMo, that's interesting. So I should be able on my 2017 to get some 20mm raise links and add a 19" front wheel with level 1? (I'm too short for more than that)
Does my thinking makes any sense, mechanically speaking? lol

I miss a proper review (travelling) on level 1 suspension. Give one to Blancolirio and he will review the sh*t out of it  :008:

Thank you!

Offline JMo

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Re: Owned a CBR600RR and want improved suspension on the X
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2019, 05:42:29 PM »
*Originally Posted by zereplim [+]
Hi JMo, that's interesting. So I should be able on my 2017 to get some 20mm raise links and add a 19" front wheel with level 1? (I'm too short for more than that)
Does my thinking makes any sense, mechanically speaking? lol

I miss a proper review (travelling) on level 1 suspension. Give one to Blancolirio and he will review the sh*t out of it  :008:

Thank you!

Hi Zeriplim - ah, no, it doesn't work like that in reverse I'm afraid...

You can't fit a 19" front wheel on the earlier bikes unless you increase the amount of clearance at the front - Rally-Raid use a combination of a stepped top triple clamp to lower the top of the fork legs, together with the longer damper rods of the LEVEL 2 suspension - while Honda with the 2019 bike have fitted greater-offset triple clamps together with a stepped top-triple clamp too, to achieve enough clearance for the larger front wheel.

Similarly, once you've raised the front, you also need to raise the rear - using a longer shock and different linkage geometry - so that the overall attitude (and rake/trail) is similar to before.

In comparison, lowering a bike is easier, as you've already got the amount of 'metal' required to do that, you just slide everything down a bit - however, be aware not too far, otherwise there is a danger even the stock front wheel/fender could hit the lower triple clamp for example.

It's is also worth pointing out/clarify my speculation above in my reply to Japes - indeed, I spoke with John and it is NOT possible to fit the longer LEVEL 2 shock and lowering links together after all - as the longer shock would/will potentially bind once the longer [lowering] links are installed.

Therefore, if you want to retain the standard travel of either the previous generation or the 2019 model, you chose the LEVEL 1 option - and accept that the modest travel and ground clearance really precludes aggressive off-road riding anyway... while if you want [what we consider is] the optimum suspension geometry for this bike, you go for the 170mm LEVEL 2 option, and the associated benefits which come with the more comprehensive rear shock specification, and in the case of the earlier generation bikes, allows you to fit a 19" front wheel too.

Hope that clarifies things!

Jenny x

ps. My suggestion would be if you really do want a 19" front wheel and are short in stature, to buy a 2019 bike and lower that - however, be aware that any bike that is lowered also loses ground clearance, so any benefit of the larger front wheel is going to be negated by the lack of ground clearance. My recommendation is to just ride carefully, and accept the limitations of your current set-up.

If you want a review of what it's like to travel on a LEVEL 1 bike, look for UKJeeper's ride report on here - he rode right across the USA last year on his L1 bike, including the Trans-America Trail.




« Last Edit: August 03, 2019, 05:50:54 PM by JMo »
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Offline zereplim

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Re: Owned a CBR600RR and want improved suspension on the X
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2019, 01:46:02 PM »
*Originally Posted by JMo [+]
Hi Zeriplim - ah, no, it doesn't work like that in reverse I'm afraid...

You can't fit a 19" front wheel on the earlier bikes unless you increase the amount of clearance at the front - Rally-Raid use a combination of a stepped top triple clamp to lower the top of the fork legs, together with the longer damper rods of the LEVEL 2 suspension - while Honda with the 2019 bike have fitted greater-offset triple clamps together with a stepped top-triple clamp too, to achieve enough clearance for the larger front wheel.

Similarly, once you've raised the front, you also need to raise the rear - using a longer shock and different linkage geometry - so that the overall attitude (and rake/trail) is similar to before.

In comparison, lowering a bike is easier, as you've already got the amount of 'metal' required to do that, you just slide everything down a bit - however, be aware not too far, otherwise there is a danger even the stock front wheel/fender could hit the lower triple clamp for example.

It's is also worth pointing out/clarify my speculation above in my reply to Japes - indeed, I spoke with John and it is NOT possible to fit the longer LEVEL 2 shock and lowering links together after all - as the longer shock would/will potentially bind once the longer [lowering] links are installed.

Therefore, if you want to retain the standard travel of either the previous generation or the 2019 model, you chose the LEVEL 1 option - and accept that the modest travel and ground clearance really precludes aggressive off-road riding anyway... while if you want [what we consider is] the optimum suspension geometry for this bike, you go for the 170mm LEVEL 2 option, and the associated benefits which come with the more comprehensive rear shock specification, and in the case of the earlier generation bikes, allows you to fit a 19" front wheel too.

Hope that clarifies things!

Jenny x

ps. My suggestion would be if you really do want a 19" front wheel and are short in stature, to buy a 2019 bike and lower that - however, be aware that any bike that is lowered also loses ground clearance, so any benefit of the larger front wheel is going to be negated by the lack of ground clearance. My recommendation is to just ride carefully, and accept the limitations of your current set-up.

If you want a review of what it's like to travel on a LEVEL 1 bike, look for UKJeeper's ride report on here - he rode right across the USA last year on his L1 bike, including the Trans-America Trail.


Hi JMo, thank you for taking the time to answer!
ah yes forgot about that detail.
Thanks for the tips!

 


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