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Offline Freerider

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RallyRaid Skid Plate with Center Stand ?
« on: January 13, 2020, 10:29:37 AM »
Hi,

has anyone managed it to mount the RallyRaid skid Plate together with a center stand ?
I would like to use the RR cause of the side engine protection so that it would replace my
Hepco & Becker engine guards also.

I want a plate mostly for weatherprotection ( i travel to work on my 2018), maybe gentle offroad use but not for sure ...
It seems there is no plate that would work with the H&B engine guards .. SW-motech doesn't work
 
And i definitely need a center stand for security in my garage ( two small kids getting their bikes and scooters etc )

Or should i go with the SW-Motech and neglect the engine guard for pure road usage ?

Greetings
Tom

Offline japes1275

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Re: RallyRaid Skid Plate with Center Stand ?
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2020, 01:25:30 PM »
It's on my to do list! Got the bike and got the guard but a bit short on time and space to have a go. Plus cutting up 270 worth of guard puts me off slightly!

What would be good would be if RR would supply a bare unpainted guard with none of the hardware and extra bits so I could have a go without as much to lose!!

My thoughts are to either use the centre stand mounting point as it uses now but with wider brackets and a longer pin. Or use similar mounts to the SW motech guard at the rear - the rear lower engine mounts so still isolated and strong.

I'm not saying its possible or easy but worth trying I think. There aren't many proper adventure bikes that weigh around 200kgs that don't have provision for a cente stand.

Online JMo

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Re: RallyRaid Skid Plate with Center Stand ?
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2020, 03:22:16 PM »
Hi Freerider - this question comes up a lot, and is answered in the FAQs on the Rally Raid thread here on this forum.

Essentially Rally-Raid chose to utilise the tube to which a centre stand would mount on this bike, as it is the strongest point for their cradle-style engine guard to attach to, which then precludes the fitting of a swing down centre stand.

This decision was made fundamentally not only for overall strength, but that a centre stand is not conducive to overall off-road performance on a bike with already limited ground clearance.

In addition, since the engine guard is designed primarily for those people who do want to ride their CB more seriously off-road, and typically will have also fitted their longer travel (+2") LEVEL 2 suspension, there is no room for a longer centre stand and the side stand to fit together in the stowed position.

I can appreciate you may have limited storage facilities at home and like to park your bike in a more upright position, but equally there are other alternatives to a centre stand which remains bolted to the bottom of your bike 100% of the time. A paddock stand for example is a useful garage accessory which can also be used on other bikes too of course.

If you don't intend to ride more seriously off road, the you don't necessarily need the Rally-Raid engine guard. And if you do, then you don't need a centre stand.

I trust that clarifies the matter.

Jenny x

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Online JMo

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Re: RallyRaid Skid Plate with Center Stand ?
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2020, 03:33:59 PM »
*Originally Posted by japes1275 [+]
It's on my to do list! Got the bike and got the guard but a bit short on time and space to have a go. Plus cutting up 270 worth of guard puts me off slightly!

What would be good would be if RR would supply a bare unpainted guard with none of the hardware and extra bits so I could have a go without as much to lose!!

My thoughts are to either use the centre stand mounting point as it uses now but with wider brackets and a longer pin. Or use similar mounts to the SW motech guard at the rear - the rear lower engine mounts so still isolated and strong.

I'm not saying its possible or easy but worth trying I think. There aren't many proper adventure bikes that weigh around 200kgs that don't have provision for a cente stand.

Hi Japes, I know you keep going on about this, but to save you a bit of time and a lot of potentially expensive heartache...

You can't simply sandwich the centre stand with a wider bracket for the engine guard, as that new bracket would have the cranked/ L shaped to allow the centre stand enough clearance to fully deploy in the down position - reducing much of the strength of the rear mounting.

Similarly, if you try and copy the SWMotech rear brackets, those again are thin and have various bends and angles to clear the back of the engine, and are like to fold in the event of a hard impact.

I'm not trying to be obtuse, and neither are Rally-Raid in not offering the provision you desire - I trust you appreciate that John and I spent a long time trying to work out if we could successfully incorporate both elements into the Rally-Raid engine guard design, and it turned out we could not without seriously compromising the strength/integrity of the guard - something we were not prepared to do - particularly as the whole point of the Rally-Raid guard was to offer the best off-road protection.

There are a number of other [commercially available or even home-brewed] options should you wish to lift the rear wheel to fix a flat tyre or lube the chain etc. in just the same way as any other trail-bike rider would do - while in a garage/workshop scenario (as I suggest above), a Paddock stand is a far more versatile piece of equipment than having a chunk of metal permanently attached to the bottom of a bike with already limited ground clearance.

Please, to save your tears, do reconsider before you start attacking your engine guard with a grinder!

Jenny x
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 03:39:23 PM by JMo »
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Offline japes1275

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Re: RallyRaid Skid Plate with Center Stand ?
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2020, 09:59:07 PM »
Youre probably right Jenny and believe me I definitely wont be breaking out the cutting discs unless Im 90% sure I can make it work! I may even have a go at bending some tubes and doing a mock up of the RR guard so I dont have to alter mine before Im sure.

I could always go back to the BS Motorparts guard I had on my 13 which I managed to modify to work with the stand - but then Id be compromising the protection as it was pretty weak.

If Im honest, with my other projects I probably wont find the time to have a go until next winter. And perhaps I should concentrate on getting some miles on the bike and actually enjoy riding it as it is. A trail stand will have to do for now!

Cheers

John




Offline Freerider

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Re: RallyRaid Skid Plate with Center Stand ?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2020, 07:40:47 AM »
Hi,
sorry for being late to answer.

Jenny - thanks for your detailed answer !
Nothing more to say - i totally agree and apriciate, that the way the EG is mounted is
the best way to absorb the strenght of an impact.

Nevertheless i'm thinking about adding a skid plate, allthough i will travel on asphalt/onroad 98%.
Will go to work every day.. summer, winter, rain, snow (w don't have that much snow here).
And that's why i need a center stand - the bike stand alone in public for about 8h.

So it won't be wrong to protect the enginge / downside of the bike a little bit also.
 
But maybe not that much, the RR EG protects the bike in real offroad usage.

I really like the RR conversion kit a lot and i'm a little bit jealous i can't use it with my riding skills   :037:

Greetings from Germany
Tom



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Re: RallyRaid Skid Plate with Center Stand ?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2020, 04:43:31 PM »
*Originally Posted by Freerider [+]
Hi,
sorry for being late to answer.

Jenny - thanks for your detailed answer !
Nothing more to say - i totally agree and apriciate, that the way the EG is mounted is
the best way to absorb the strenght of an impact.

Nevertheless i'm thinking about adding a skid plate, allthough i will travel on asphalt/onroad 98%.
Will go to work every day.. summer, winter, rain, snow (w don't have that much snow here).
And that's why i need a center stand - the bike stand alone in public for about 8h.

So it won't be wrong to protect the enginge / downside of the bike a little bit also.
 
But maybe not that much, the RR EG protects the bike in real offroad usage.

I really like the RR conversion kit a lot and i'm a little bit jealous i can't use it with my riding skills   :037:

Greetings from Germany
Tom

No worries, always happy to help - these same sorts of questions do come up from time to time and it's always a good idea to reiterate the reasons why something is the way it is, for anyone new or unfamiliar who may be reading.

As for a [alternative] skid plate - although as you say you envisage you'll be on paved roads 98% of the time, these kinds of bike are more versatile than a pure road bike, and encourage you to explore away from the beaten track, so in that regard, some kind of underbelly protection is a wise precaution to the otherwise vulnerable exposed sump.

As long as you ride carefully, you can still be ok on a bare-bones bike (after all, the 2019 models on the recent US press-launch didn't have any additional protection, only more aggressive tyres - although their off-road route was predefined of course) - but if you're still planning on fitting a centre stand, then yes, I would look at the alternatives out there such as the SWMotech to help protect the underside in the event you do ride over something which might crack or puncture the sump case.

note. I appreciate you say the SWM skid plate won't fit with the Hebco&Becker engine bars, but again, in my experience, separate engine bars are not required on this bike (or any bike ahem) - as you surmise, the tubular wings on the RR engine guard are more than sufficient to protect the engine extremities off-road and/or in the event of a drop.

Hope that helps!

Jenny x

It's not a unicorn as such, just a little mule with a bump on it's head... www.CB500Xadventure.com

Offline VA-CB500X

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Re: RallyRaid Skid Plate with Center Stand ?
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2020, 03:21:19 AM »
*Originally Posted by JMo [+]
Hi Japes, I know you keep going on about this, but to save you a bit of time and a lot of potentially expensive heartache...

You can't simply sandwich the centre stand with a wider bracket for the engine guard, as that new bracket would have the cranked/ L shaped to allow the centre stand enough clearance to fully deploy in the down position - reducing much of the strength of the rear mounting.

Similarly, if you try and copy the SWMotech rear brackets, those again are thin and have various bends and angles to clear the back of the engine, and are like to fold in the event of a hard impact.

I'm not trying to be obtuse, and neither are Rally-Raid in not offering the provision you desire - I trust you appreciate that John and I spent a long time trying to work out if we could successfully incorporate both elements into the Rally-Raid engine guard design, and it turned out we could not without seriously compromising the strength/integrity of the guard - something we were not prepared to do - particularly as the whole point of the Rally-Raid guard was to offer the best off-road protection.

There are a number of other [commercially available or even home-brewed] options should you wish to lift the rear wheel to fix a flat tyre or lube the chain etc. in just the same way as any other trail-bike rider would do - while in a garage/workshop scenario (as I suggest above), a Paddock stand is a far more versatile piece of equipment than having a chunk of metal permanently attached to the bottom of a bike with already limited ground clearance.

Please, to save your tears, do reconsider before you start attacking your engine guard with a grinder!

Jenny x

Jenny, so would you advise someone planning to order a 2020 cb500x to forego the expense of the oem centerstand? 

Also, could you provide a link to an example of a paddock stand? Thank you.

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Re: RallyRaid Skid Plate with Center Stand ?
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2020, 04:54:53 PM »
*Originally Posted by VA-CB500X [+]
Jenny, so would you advise someone planning to order a 2020 cb500x to forego the expense of the oem centerstand? 

Also, could you provide a link to an example of a paddock stand? Thank you.

Hi VA' - if you want (or feel you need) a centre stand, go ahead and fit one - they suit some people and the style of riding they plan to use this bike for very well.

But if you priority is to to ride a mix of paved/unpaved and more rough 'jeep trail' type terrain, and want to improve the off-road capability of your bike, then a centre stand bolted to the underside of the bike 100% of the time in not really conductive to this regardless of which engine-guard/skid plate you choose to fit - especially since the CB itself only has limited ground clearance compared to a more dirt-oriented dual-sport bike.

If you look back at any of the threads I've replied to regarding this subject, I've suggested that for home/workshop use you use something like a platform scissor jack (note. if you're in the US Harbor Freight sell one for around $50 as I recall, while in the UK Machinemart or similar will have some thing similar - you'll see them on Ebay too of course) - however, this would be used primarily for assembly/wheel/suspension removal as it would locate directly under the engine -  rather for generally lifting the rear (or front, with a front version), a paddock stand is a quick and easy way to lift and support the bike if you need to remove the wheels, and/or for chain maintenance - note. the handbook recommends you adjust the chain tension with the bike on the side stand of course.

For the odd occasion you might need to lift your rear wheel (or again, some - such as the Endurostar Trailstand - also allow you to lift the front too) during a ride or on an extended trip, there are a number of products - the Endurostar Trailstand already mentioned above, the Bikemaster Lift-Stick and the Snap-Jack, which all work in a similar way and pack down small enough to stash in your luggage and/or even under your seat.

Fundamentally, all of these products are universal and transferable between bikes - whether you yourself have a second machine, or you are travelling with someone (or even just happen on someone who is having trouble at the road/trail side) and can be used as required.

Some links (even though you are reading this on a Google machine of course ;o)

http://www.endurostar.com

https://bikemaster.com/liftstick.html

http://thesnapjack.com

There is also this I found: https://www.chapmoto.com/unit-motorcycle-products-c5010-emergency-side-stand-832-c5010?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9v_fvNOX5wIVGf_jBx1gngbwEAQYASABEgLXw_D_BwE - which is very similar to the DIY version some people have made from old crutch legs for example (YouTube is your friend here).

Similarly, just google 'Motorcycle Paddock Stand' and you'll see a whole range of designs and price-points, although they all do pretty much the same thing - support the swing-arm on each side and cantilever the bike up so the rear (or front) wheel is off the ground. For the CB you'd want one that uses regular cradle style cups, not the bobbin type (unless you also want to fit bobbins too of course).

Note. if you're planning on removing the suspension components at any time - to replace the rear shock for example - they you need a scissor style lift under the engine, not a paddock stand that still supports the weight of the bike through the swing-arm of course.

Hope that helps!

Jenny x




« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 04:56:19 PM by JMo »
It's not a unicorn as such, just a little mule with a bump on it's head... www.CB500Xadventure.com

Offline VA-CB500X

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Re: RallyRaid Skid Plate with Center Stand ?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2020, 09:57:41 PM »
Hi Jenny,

Thanks for the detailed reply.  I am likely going to be purchasing a 2020 CB500X, and had been planning to get a centerstand.  I was not aware of the considerations you described above (and elsewhere), which have really got me re-considering the utility of the centerstand.  Thanks for patiently explaining.

One of the products you linked to above (Endurostar Trailstand) mentions that it can also be used to raise the front tire (not just rear tire) off the ground. However, it caveats this claim with the following statement:

Varying motorcycle geometry may make front wheel lifting impractical on some motorcycles but it can be accomplished on many models if a 3/8" diameter hole (or larger) is located on the right front or side of a skidplate.

Does the RR skidplate (or any other you might be aware of) incorporate such a hole?  Thanks. 

 


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