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Offline Oyley

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Re: Honda win the Dakar Rally!
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2020, 10:29:13 PM »
And I am old enough to remember buying the original 650 Africa Twin that I had to get imported to the UK from Germany as Honda UK did not import the bike until the 750 was introduced.The 650 was built on the HRC production line and in my view was a better bike than the 750,I know this as I chopped my 650 in for the 750 and regretted it within hours that day.
I know the original 650 is old hat now but at the time,there was nothing really like it here..I did move to a Cagiva Elefant 750(correct spelling for the bike) then a 900 version and then the Lucky Strike 900 ie...I wish I had kept the 650 AF and the 900ie.
Friends said I must be mad buying that style of bike and it was a continental thing and they would never catch on here in the UK...I said,give it time....and the rest is history.I must have had 25 plus 'big trail' style bikes since then.
Curently riding the 19my CBX500 and brand new 19my Yamaha T7 in storage until a knee injury heals...and a couple of others.

Offline skidooboy

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Re: Honda win the Dakar Rally!
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2020, 05:40:37 PM »
*Originally Posted by JMo [+]
Honda did show a 'concept' CRF450L 'Rally' at EICMA (at the end of 2018) - built around the CRF450L, but with what looked like a very production-ready tower, tank and fairing/skid plate fitted, it even had turn-signals and DOT lights fitted.



Now they've finally won a Dakar [this century], perhaps that will get the green light for 2020? - it's not a full-on RFR of course, but fundamentally the bike is street legal in the US (and all around the world), and would be a great 'everyman' (and woman ;o) basis as a privateer rally bike for mere mortals?

Jx



I would think Honda would Rush out a production version of this ASAP.

It would pull some of the media buzz and customers away from the Yamaha T7.



Go Jets Go!!!

Offline JMo

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Re: Honda win the Dakar Rally!
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2020, 08:06:30 PM »
*Originally Posted by skidooboy [+]


I would think Honda would Rush out a production version of this ASAP.

It would pull some of the media buzz and customers away from the Yamaha T7.

Yes, I'd agree, and it's quite possible - especially when you consider the CRF250L 'Rally' model was launched once Honda started to a bit better* in Dakar (*I'm sure they'd actually banked on it coinciding with a win that year to be honest), and fundamentally some time after the original [base] model was launched.

However, while I'm sure this 450 version would suit a fair number of riders (particularly the weight-watchers over on ADVrider ;o), it is still very much a competition [and single cylinder] enduro engine underneath all that extra bodywork - the Tenere 700 in comparison uses a much more street-bike derived twin-cylinder engine (like our CB500X does) with fundamentally far lower maintenance requirements; so as more of an every-day all-rounder, the Yamaha is going to be far more appealing to 'adventure' riders I suspect.

However, as I always say, there is plenty of room in the market for manufacturers to diversify (presuming it is cost effective for them to do so) - and the more options the merrier I my opinion!

Jenny x
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 08:10:44 PM by JMo »
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Offline Oyley

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Re: Honda win the Dakar Rally!
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2020, 10:59:27 PM »
Now if Honda could have squeezed 10-15 hp out of the NX750 engine,put it in a dedicated Adventure type frame,suspension to match,similar looks etc to the Yaamaha T7...that would be sat here in my stable.

Offline MacDoc

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Re: Honda win the Dakar Rally!
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2020, 12:05:56 AM »
And what do they do about that horrid POS 750 motor with a what? a 6k redline??  :112:

Yamaha teased adventure enthusiasts with the rally-styled T7 ... from 4000rpm and stays smooth up near the 10,000rpm redline, while the

Better a 700 cc CB motor.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 12:08:20 AM by MacDoc »
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Online Wedgetail

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Re: Honda win the Dakar Rally!
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2020, 12:21:18 AM »
*Originally Posted by Oyley [+]
Now if Honda could have squeezed 10-15 hp out of the NX750 engine,put it in a dedicated Adventure type frame,suspension to match,similar looks etc to the Yaamaha T7...that would be sat here in my stable.

The engine in the NC750X (and other models)?  It might need more power on paper in the spec. sheet but on the road it does very nicely I reckon. I had an NC700S and that machine had the sweetest engine of any bike I've ever owned...a fair few in 45 years +.
But I agree with your general point. I love my '19 500X and reckon she's a beaut. on gravel roads but a couple of weeks ago I had a ride on a mate's NC750X (with suspension work 2" extra both ends). On reasonable surfaces where I'd be cruising at 80kph the NC loped along at 100kph very nicely.
Not sure of the figures but I think the NC750 engine itself might be a bit heavy for Honda to build a bike to go head to head with the T7 (a v nice machine in it's own right) but, like you, I hope I'm wrong.   

Offline VA-CB500X

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Re: Honda win the Dakar Rally!
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2020, 12:22:46 AM »
*Originally Posted by Oyley [+]
Now if Honda could have squeezed 10-15 hp out of the NX750 engine,put it in a dedicated Adventure type frame,suspension to match,similar looks etc to the Yaamaha T7...that would be sat here in my stable.

I can't vouch for authenticity, but have read in multiple places that Honda plans to introduce a smaller Africa Twin model in the 700-800cc range, possibly this coming year.

Offline MacDoc

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Re: Honda win the Dakar Rally!
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2020, 12:38:34 AM »
Kid and I ran the NC700 when it came out and both agreed the worst demo ride ever. Hitting that hard rev limiter just took all the pleasure away.

The 500 motor revs sweetly up to it's redline without feeling it's just run into a marshmellow.

700 series is a motor from the Honda Jaz and designed for fuel economy not for performance. I guess if you like short shifting maybe it works for you but I think a motorcycle should be able to get a much higher redline and without that hard "choke".
Not my cuppa at all and I noticed Honda put it in some sort of cruiser style.


apparently cruiser riders don't care about short shifting.

And the yet the 500 gets as good or better fuel mileage.

The headache with a boosted CBx is it takes it out of the learner category.

A 700 series AT tho ...might get some attention.

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Online Wedgetail

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Re: Honda win the Dakar Rally!
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2020, 02:48:03 AM »
*Originally Posted by MacDoc [+]
Kid and I ran the NC700 when it came out and both agreed the worst demo ride ever. Hitting that hard rev limiter just took all the pleasure away.

The 500 motor revs sweetly up to it's redline without feeling it's just run into a marshmellow.

700 series is a motor from the Honda Jaz and designed for fuel economy not for performance. I guess if you like short shifting maybe it works for you but I think a motorcycle should be able to get a much higher redline and without that hard "choke".
Not my cuppa at all and I noticed Honda put it in some sort of cruiser style.


apparently cruiser riders don't care about short shifting.

And the yet the 500 gets as good or better fuel mileage.

The headache with a boosted CBx is it takes it out of the learner category.

A 700 series AT tho ...might get some attention.

The cruiser in your quote is a V twin.

Though it's often heard, the NC700/750 engine is neither from a Honda Jazz nor is it even "half a Honda Jazz" engine. That idea stems from a misunderstanding of a quote from a Honda executive about the time of the release.
Regardless, I can certainly see that it's not everyone's cup of tea and I agree that an AT style machine with a 700cc engine in the style of the 500X would be excellent. Whether Honda would build a new engine in these days when all manufacturers want a lot of different models to justify doing so may be the stumbling block.     

Offline JMo

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Re: Honda win the Dakar Rally!
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2020, 03:13:07 AM »
*Originally Posted by Wedgetail [+]
The cruiser in your quote is a V twin.

Though it's often heard, the NC700/750 engine is neither from a Honda Jazz nor is it even "half a Honda Jazz" engine. That idea stems from a misunderstanding of a quote from a Honda executive about the time of the release.
Regardless, I can certainly see that it's not everyone's cup of tea and I agree that an AT style machine with a 700cc engine in the style of the 500X would be excellent. Whether Honda would build a new engine in these days when all manufacturers want a lot of different models to justify doing so may be the stumbling block.   

Thanks Wedgetail, saves me posting that clarification myself ;o)

Still, let's include a pithy meme just to confirm the point:



The problem with the current NC series engine is it's dimensions (and overall bulk/weight) don't lend itself particularly well to an off-road biased adventure bike unfortunately - a more conventional vertical barrel parallel twin would be more compact.

As you've suggested, unless Honda are planning a series of bikes around a new 'mid size' 700/800cc parallel twin, it's hard to imagine they will make a brand new engine for just a single model these days... however, the VFR800 (although considered by some as a 'classic' motor) is very long in the tooth now, so who knows what we might see from Honda in the next couple of years - a duo, or even a trio perhaps?

Jx

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