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Offline Aggie95

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Moto GPS, Does any body know a good one?
« on: March 16, 2020, 10:07:43 PM »
I am so frustrated and sick of Garmin!  I own a couple of expensive Garmin GPS units and the more I use them the more disgusted I have become with Garmin!

I won't go into all the irritations I have experienced with my Garmin GPSMAP276 my wife purchased for me in 2007 for $800 US (2007 dollars).  Suffice it to say they obsoleted this unit about sixty days after she purchased it, and my frustrations grew from there...

Presently, I acquired a Garmin Montana 680t (not my first choice in moto gps) from my son when he bought a BMW R1200RT with a BMW/Garmin built into the dashboard.  I used the Montana on a 2600 mile six day trip in October.  I planned the entire trip in Basecamp, a colossally laborious learning experience!  :157:  (Even after using Garmin's MapSource for over a decade)

The first few days of the trip went quite well; we stayed pretty much on schedule and only deviated slightly from the planned trip.  We began each day on the schedule and all went fairly well.  However, on the third day, we needed to alter the trip quite a bit.  My son was able to take the routes I prepared using Basecamp and skip several waypoints and he was back on the scheduled route with little effort. 

The Montana experience was quite different!  I found no way to modify the routes for the next several days such that the planned routes were of any use.  So, my Montana became a very expensive tracker for the last three days of the trip.  I assumed the problem lie with my inexperience with the Montana and vowed to become proficient with it before our Tour of Honor rides commence in April of 2020.

I have just spent three days learning to use Basecamp and learning to navigate the Montana and I ran into the same roadblock as I did in October.  If a route is either created or modified in any way in Basecamp, you can no longer modify that route on the Montana!!! You can only edit a route if it was created on the Montana!!   :233:

This means any planning you want to do before the ride must be performed on the tiny little screen of the handheld and not on your powerful computer with a screen large enough you can see the map!  You must add every waypoint one at a time from the tiny map or from an extensive list that is difficult to navigate.  Also, there is no route optimization function on the Montana; you must do that yourself while endlessly zooming in and out on that tiny screen!!  Basecamp is only useful for transferring data to your device.  Most of the program is frilly crap that no one uses - making Adventures, Trip Planning!  :233:

Thirteen years of fighting with expensive Garmin devices and Garmin's stupid planning software has me thinking I am much better off with Google Maps and Spotwalla!!  What do y'all think!!  (And, they are both free!  So long, Garmin!!)   :080:

Sorry for ranting guys, but I'm so tired of spending large sums of money on products that are so poorly designed and executed...  :431:

1971-1973: '67 CL77 (305 Scrambler), Sold, because my wife said to...
2018: '14 CB500X, The dream bike of my youth!  Thanks, Son

Offline Oyley

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Re: Moto GPS, Does any body know a good one?
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2020, 11:21:15 PM »
Ah..the dreaded over reliance of sat navs..I have had satnavs from before they ever did street level mapping,must have had maybe 15 plus units and I still prefer to make some notes like a roadbook and stick them in the map sleeve of my tank bag and just use the sat nav as a moving map display,that and have loose map in my head before I set off that day..
It will save you a whole lot of heartache trying to mess around with basecamp.The other method is to,on a comfort or fuel stop just use the tap and go on the screen and repeat the process at each stop..but always have some map memory in your head.
I still find Garmin,for road use,the best of a bad bunch...Planes get around on them,you wont see that being done with a TOM TOM.

Offline ulfheonar

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Re: Moto GPS, Does any body know a good one?
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2020, 11:39:58 PM »
well its not related to motorcycle , but when im hiking or in my car, I just use my android phone , or my 7 inch android tablet, I use the free software Osmand , easy to update and I have all POI , often I used it inside a ziplok bag when raining . the weakness of these are , not waterproof , harder to connect to SAT under thick cover ( trees - building ), its never been a problem for me.

Offline VA-CB500X

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Re: Moto GPS, Does any body know a good one?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2020, 12:32:31 AM »
I have used many Garmin products over the years, and I will agree that the interface can be infuriating. Weve had some that were absolute duds - - my wifes fitness tracker watch comes to mind.  That one ended up a very expensive paperweight.

But Im pretty sure I could memorize the entire route and all the side roads in less time than you spent trying to interface with Basecamp.  So that sounds like a waste of time to me.  Im also not one to limit myself to a way-point route, either.  I prefer to study paper map ahead of time and then drive in the general direction feeling my way along.  I tend to agree with what Oyley said, that the GPS is best used as a moving map.

And the Montana unit is designed more for hunters/outdoorsman, not so much as a motorcycle unit.

That said, and despite your disappointment with Garmin products, they have a new one just released that looks promising.  It includes topo maps as well as standard road map and sat views.  The topo maps are especially handy if you do any off-pavement riding.  Its specifically designed for motorcycling, so has the waterproof and bluetooth features in addition to the topo maps.  I believe the model is called ZumoXT.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 12:35:21 AM by VA-CB500X »

Offline Oyley

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Re: Moto GPS, Does any body know a good one?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2020, 12:40:53 AM »
I have not seen the latest Garmin unit but think Sven has
mentioned it..certainly in mountainous areas the topography maps could be useful.
And usual, should I upgrade at some point...I will await some realtime  reviews before spending, most new units have bugs.

Offline Ceddy17

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Re: Moto GPS, Does any body know a good one?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2020, 09:00:16 AM »
Basecamp can do sooo much more then simply transfer data to/from a device. I wouldn't call that "crap".
One simply has to see the possibilities it could create.
If you complaint about the software, it might be because you are new or not well trained in using it?
If you are not content with the Montana device, perhaps it is not the right equipment for your needs?
Didn't your son knew about that "flaw" in the system before he sold the Montana to you?
You are sure you used the correct maps on both the Montana and Mapsource? Are those routable maps?
Maybe the Montana wasn't designed to do what you expect it to do from the beginning?

I modified a Garmin Nuvi 255W to use on my bike, but hey... it won't accept routes nor tracks from Mapsource or Basecamp.
It simply isn't possible because it was never intended to be able to do that from the beginning.
I can do sooo much more with my GpsMap60, but like you: altering a route on the device itself is a b*tch.
Is that the fault of the device? Is Garmin as a company to blame? I think not. I think one has to use a device for what it is designed to do.
So I purchased a Garmin Zumo 345LM and I'm happy as a clamp....

Also: I carry an old Acer Aspire One on my journeys just to be able to use Basecamp.
Yes it is old and slow but it is usable for my purposes and therefore ideal in my situation.
Is it the fault of a fork that one can not very well eat soup with it?
I suggest you look around for a device that suits your personal purposes better and I guarantee you a happier life.

On my mountainbike I use an old Samsung S4 mini with a battery pack. I got rid of all the whistles and bells and installed OsmAnd.
I do my routing in Basecamp (yes, yes..) and convert the route/track to the Samsung. Works like a charm and very cheap!

And remember: a paper map never runs out of batteries...;-)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 09:06:37 AM by Ceddy17 »
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Offline Swanny

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Re: Moto GPS, Does any body know a good one?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2020, 09:49:10 AM »
I used a Garmin Nuvi car one on my trips in Europe last year. Not ideal but it did the job and much much cheaper than a bike one
Life... It's Just a Ride  :305:

Offline hilldweller

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Re: Moto GPS, Does any body know a good one?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2020, 10:41:58 AM »
WARNING: I've just looked at the ebay listing again, in one place it says Android 4 ( mine is ) but in another place it says WinCE 6, the ancient Windows Control Addition - you DO NOT want WinCE, it's just not got the volume of software Android has. So check if you are tempted.


For what it's worth I use the ebay item below. It is basically a waterproof Android 4 tablet. It is very basic and the screen does not work with gloves on, but it is cheap and can get you through the those terrible last miles in a busy city. As someone else has said, you can always trust a map but no in heavy traffic in a city.

I was not happy with supplied satnav software ( I may have been a bit hasty here ) but since I already had Copilot Live I put that on it. There are other free/cheap Satnav programs would out there.

Cheap and cheerful. Pairs to bluetooth headset fine. If I lose it it's no big deal.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Motorbike-Bluetooth-GPS-Nabigation-Motorcycle-Car-GPS-SAT-NAV-Multi-language/254518863726?hash=item3b4281a76e:g:HIAAAOSwb~xeT09L
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 10:50:57 AM by hilldweller »
Brian.

Offline JMo

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Re: Moto GPS, Does any body know a good one?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2020, 09:04:08 PM »
fwiw. I think people need to consider how they are using GPS for navigation in the first place.

As you are probably aware, I have navigated all over North America - plus huge portions of Europe and North Africa - using a Garmin Montana GPS, and never had a problem going either exactly where I want to go [directly, using the find/go-to function], or trusting the machine to take me to a pre determined point the way it decides... after all, let's not forget it's all an adventure if you've never been there before?

If you absolutely want to go via a specific point (or series of points), enter those as waypoints - you can even number them [as part of their name] if you want to make it easy to remember a specific order - and either string them together in a route and let the GPS do the rest, or simply pick each waypoint in turn from the menu and 'go to' each time.

The trick is to not expect the machine to guide you inch perfect over a huge distance using the routing function - break a longer day's journey down into more manageable sections - say 100 miles or so at a time, time for a coffee and a pee for example - and if it isn't sending you the way you want to go, add a via point using the screen or from your list of predetermined waypoints.

The problem [that people seem to suffer] is when you try and do too much preparation in Basecamp, stringing together complicated routes on a screen, rather than trusting the device to navigate you between pre-determined points on more of a leg-by-leg basis.

In that regard, the Montana is actually a very good device for use on a motorcycle - as it allows you have a menu full of waypoints (thousands of them if that is what you want), which you can access from a dedicated menu/screen button and display either in alphabetical/numerical order, or by those nearest to your current proximity.

Once you get used to using the device the way it was designed [ie as essentially a stand alone navigation tool], it is actually very intuitive - the issues only seem to arise when you try and create complicated pre-determined routes in a computer programme, which in the case of Garmin Basecamp is indeed a clunky OS first written in the early 1990s - and then try and rely on that for the duration of your trip.

for info. I only ever use Basecamp for storing/transferring previously recorded track logs and groups of waypoints... all my route planning is done using a traditional map, and the GPS unit on my lap - the more you do it, the easier to becomes to simply zoom in [on the screen's map] and create a waypoint by tapping the screen, calling it something appropriate (even if it's just D1, WP1 / WP2 etc.) and using that list on the fly to keep you going the way you want to.

Don't over think it!

Jenny x
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 09:08:14 PM by JMo »
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Offline Oyley

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Re: Moto GPS, Does any body know a good one?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2020, 10:38:55 PM »
I will go with the above .
I use it even less than that,unless in my vehicle and travelling between jobs on paved roads.
On the bike it's just a moving map to me and always in 'North up' mode ( same in my vehicle) and a map in the tank bag...a compass is handy as the compass on a lot of sat navs is just not a compass when stationary..at least one can have an idea in which direction you are heading...and if electronics fail, a map and a compass and a rolling memory in your head and taking regular stock of where you are helps greatly.
I do use use the 'go to ' function though...simples.

 


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